A plan of action...vet advice needed

[PatientMan]

I'm with you on the physical thing. Yesterday was a day I did not want to be in the same room with W for whatever reason. So I made myself busy with the kids and after that, when I was tired, I went upstairs to the kids' area and watched TV up there instead of downstairs.

W eventually found me. In my head I'm thinking "grrr...just want to rest and not deal with you right now. Remember all those times when you said you had days where you couldn't even LOOK at me? Well...*I* have those days too." That's what's going on in my mind, but all of a sudden my biology starts kicking in and I'm all revved up. Crazy!

I ended up disengaging by going to the grocer to pick up the last few things so I could grill out. Told the D's they were welcome to come along if they want. They all went with me and we had a great time at the store.

I "backslide" easily too when it comes to touch, and she knows it. Make her off limits. You are not allowed to initiate touch. Make it a game for yourself. Say it to yourself: "I will not initiate contact." Do you have enough willpower to win that game?

-PM

[SFC_Swede]

ROFL...yes sir, but brother is that a tall order! I have enough trouble not asking if she is interested in ML LOL! After weeks...and W looking so good, its crazy.

But, point taken.

[sandi2]

Probably the hardest thing to do is "act" happy, and upbeat around her. She is looking amazing...and working out like she has a prize fight in two weeks. So its hard to see her, and not feel depressed.

I'm sure it must be very difficult for you, but please understand that a WAW is a different creature from the girl you M. The girl you M was in love with you. Your WAW no longer feels in love with you. Your bride wanted you to fill her up emotionally. The woman you have now feels emotionally dead to you. You used to be all she thought about and she wanted to please you. Somewhere, that faded away. She wanted you to compliment her when you thought she looked great. Now, it kind of irks her to hear it from you. She admired and respected you as a man, But she has neither for you now. She wanted to be with you sexually. But now she no longer desires you.

Even when PT is not the primary LL, people in love still want to be touched by their S. People who have a high drive may still have sex with their S, but the in-love feelings aren't there. People on the board have different opinions about having sex with a WAS. If there was always a healthy sex life in the M......who knows? But if she wasn't the one who usually initiated, IMHO I would have to say she isn't interested. "Most" WAW's feel completely "done" with the M. Once done.....she feels that's it. Can't go any further with it, and won't try.

She doesn't get to that point overnight. The WAW feels very unhappy, neglected, and lonely for a long time. The H may say it's not true, but it's her feelings and it's how she remembers it (right or wrong). She feels "empty" and then she begins to feel "dead" inside.

When she feels dead, she's in an extremely vulnerable position. B/c the first male who says just the right words to make her feels special, makes her feel pretty, or young & sexy.....she is in danger of stepping into an emotional realm that will thrive on her emotions. The more ego food she gets, the stronger the emotional fantasy.....and pretty soon, you've got a monster who has replaced the girl you M.

Yes, she will start looking really good! She'll work out, dress in younger looking clothes, change her hair, wear more make-up, and some start hitting the party life. (That's why I personally think she has another man's attention....or is looking.) I mean, you have to ask yourself why is she suddenly doing this (especially when she's so obviously disinterested in her H). And if there isn't a "why", then you have to ask yourself who. It is usually a who that sets off the ego spark in a woman (who has felt dead for a long time). Once she feels that little spark, she sees there's life after death, and she's not about to give it up.

Now, your nature will want to do all those things you should have done a long time ago. But you see, she doesn't want you to do it now. In fact, if you try to do it now, it will backfire and make her pull away quicker than ever. That brings me back to the touching. Some DB coaches have advised certain folks to do a little touch to see the response. Depending on that particular stitch. But it sure doesn't happen in all cases! B/c the WAW is no longer attracted to her H, and she no longer desires his attention, compliments, or touches. In fact, she goes to the extreme the other direction from her old self. It seems anything he does simply turns her off, and that's why anything that resembles romantic intentions will get you bad results. And each time a LBH tries that route, she has to show him that she's serious about ending the M, b/c she thinks you aren't accepting it.

Get as much information as you can about the WAW, otherwise you will be completely defenseless.

Btw, I was once a WAW. This board saved my M. The DBing program is really designed for the S who wants to save the M. I was an exception b/c I really didn't have the desire to save it when I first came here, but I knew I was in trouble and needed guidance.

So, there is hope for you. Don't give up. You will have to learn to think differently about your R with your W, if you want go save this M. So, listen carefully to the advice given on the board. Also, don't try to pick and choose from various programs b/c it will be very confusing.

[jp787]

Sandi I love reading your words. You articulate your thoughts so well and are so dead on.

Maybe I am finally ready.

Thank you.

[sandi2]

Thank you so much, JP787! It is really encouraging to know somebody understands what I'm trying to say.

[lovethehub]

Sandi2, I was a WAW and I could have written that (if I were as articulate as everyone on here is!), it is so true.

I was dead inside, someone gave me attention and I had an A. I was actually pi**ed when my H wanted to work things out because I thought "Seriously, I tried for years and you had no interest and now that I am finally happy again you want to work it out?" I didn't want to give up the happiness I had found and every thing he did repulsed me. I couldn't stand when he touched me, sex was something I suffered through and everything he did to be nice seemed fake. Even the things that seemed genuine made me think "Why now? Why didn't you do this when I asked you to? TOO LATE BUDDY"

Be careful how you deal with your WAW, by trying to show her what you know now you should have been doing all along, you may drive her away permanently.

[mrtwopointfour]

Sandi2 & LTH, my WAW / MLC wife is this exact way, and i feel the changes I am making are irritating for her, although they are making me a better person, she does keep saying 'why now after this time' or 'you never did before why bother'. I also am finding that she lets her true colours slip occasionally and says some horrid things - quite personal insults that she would never have thought to say or believed before, almost as if her new OM is being held as an example of what she 'really' wanted all these years, and I am a reject or a prototype that went wrong.

So my question is, apart from changes that are permanent, and apart from patience (which is getting a little thin on the ground), do we just sit back and get on with life and hope for the best that we are the lucky ones that have a W that realises what she is doing, that she does not want this new life after all?

I have not been on here for over a week now as I am beginning to give up, just want to get it over and done with and move on, as after all there is only so much a LBS can take - and yes I understand that this is exactly how a WAW must feel too. But a WAW does not seem to have the drive to save the M, where the LBS does.

Sorry for hijacking and ranting!

[SFC_Swede]

Sandi2...You ma'am are a godsend, and treasure trove of knowledge and wisdom. I will be honest with you...I broke Sandi2's Rules #'s 1 through 16 when this whole thing started in April without even knowing better. I am so glad I found this board, and met the great people who gather here to help eachother.

LTH...I follow your posts as well, and try and glean a better understanding of the position I am in, and what to do about it. She has literally moved on, and the only reason I feel we are still in the same house is do to finances, health insurance, ect....and my willingness to back off and live together without living together. She posted newly taken family pictures from Mother's Day on Facebook yesterday....and it was a gut punch, because as I looked at the family I used to be part of...I wasnt there anymore.

[mrtwopointfour]

By the way that was not a dig at either of you : )

[sandi2]

But a WAW does not seem to have the drive to save the M, where the LBS does.

I will get back to Swede in a minute, but wanted to inject this while it was fresh on the brain. As a WAW myself, I felt that I had worked very hard over the years to improve my M. In fact, I often felt I was the only one who was. I would always be the one to start a R talk (or talk about anything of any depth much), and I would try to tell my H what was lacking in the M and what I needed. But after so many years of not seeing any changes from him, I just started giving up (in a sense). I was depressed and lonely. My energy for the MR was pretty much shot.

I believe it's the "timing" of the WAW and LBH that is so off. By the time she's done and ready to walk away from the M, he gets his wakeup call. Her interest & energy is tanked, while his just starts.

So, it's not that she was never interested in working on the M, but she was interested when you weren't. Now, you are interested while she's not.