Good Old England

[Big Bruce]

Hello,

I'm continuing here the topic before the other gets cut off.
Got your message loud and clear: I'll be posting here my drat emails before sending them to W.
In fact, I meant to send another one later this week, because I still didn't get a reply and maybe I came across as wanting to give her less.
So, the other issue, the one of time S gets to be with each patent still needs to be discussed though.
Apparently, I shouldn't link money and Son. Correct?
And how am I supposed to introduce the fact that I want to discuss that between us without the lawyers and the court again?
I was thinking of something like: "oh see the negotiations for the money went well, we're both reasonable, let's do the same for our S, aka give me 50% of the time." Written differently of course!
Ok, I'll post son my tentative email,
until then, have a lilac and lime scented spring week,
Bruce

[Big Bruce]

Hello,

To put things in context I will first copy here the e-mail I sent that has not been replied to after two weeks!

Hi W,
I had a busy week-end :), hope yours was good as well.

Ok, below are some observations. Can you provide me with a comment on each bullet point? Hopefully it'll make the dicussion progress.

Have you determined yet what the considered property is?
Exclusions: property owned before marriage, goods or advantages acquired before the marriage by gift or inheritance which was intended to benefit only one spouse.

There are a number of reasons listed for an unequal division of property:

- The length of time that the spouses have cohabited before and during their marriage;
Length of marriage from March 2009 to June 2012 : 39 months. Cohabited: 31 months.

- The duration of the period during which the spouses have lived separate and apart.
Apart 16 months, separated and apart : 10 months .

- Date when matrimonial property was acquired.
22 September 2010: 15 months of life in it together

- The contribution, whether financial or in some other form, made directly or indirectly by a third party on behalf of a spouse to the acquisition, disposition, operation, management or use of the matrimonial property.

- Any maintenance payments payable for the support of a child;

- The value of matrimonial property situated outside Saskatchewan.

Length of spousal support:
- Length of marriage.
- Self-sufficiency.
- Presence of a compensatory claim.

 Are there any other items you think that need to be included in this list?
You mentioned in the past not being interested by maintenance payments, what is your take on it?
Have a good one,
Bruce

Now you know what I have written and maybe why W hasn't replied yet.

Even before I post my proposed next e-mail I would ask you if you could comment on this one and how I could appear less assertive or like I want to give her are rough deal.

Thank you, this time I am posting my e-mails to you before sending them to my wife.

Bruce

[Big Bruce]

Hi again,
No replies, but that's ok, I'm using this site as a "buffer zone" for my thoughts to mature before sending anything to W.
Of course if I had comments back, that'd be great.

How about this one :

Good morning W,
Hope all is good with you.

I'm writing because I'm hoping to hear what is your proposition concerning Brucie.
I made it clear from the beginning that I believe that our son benefits from having both a mom and dad. Brucie not being able to obtain that in the situation he's in, the less distressing layout would be a 50-50 allotment.

I was hoping we could engage in candid discussions on how to achieve that.
As you know, in about 5 weeks now, the lawyers will be pushing for a pre trial conference, negotiation, or chambers motion seeking access.
I sincerly think we don't need any of it if we're both open and value each other's point of view.

Let me know how you see things and what you think we can do,
Take care,
Bruce

Any suggestions? Comments? Remarks? Improvements?

Thank you guys,
(This process really is a pain in the.... neck)
Bruce

[Big Bruce]

Hi,
I am contemplating sending the following message:

Good afternoon W,
How is your week going? Hope all's good.
I realize my last email was too general and perhaps difficult to respond to. You on the other hand have asked precise questions about the share you want.

Although not being comfortable about sending numbers by email, I will try and answer as best as I can, and I would like to have your opinion on it and a dialogue. I was thinking of an equitable division of assets and a change in spousal support.

The formula would be like : Household goods + money gotten from the appartment + assets as of 23rd Nov. 2012 - Applicable deductions = Sum A for you and Sum B for me.

This calculation is applied for each one of us, and half of the difference of the Sums (1/2 (Sum B -Sum A), would be given to the one with lower Sum number, to make it even.

Does this look something like you think would be acceptable? Is there anything you see missing?

[PS. You also asked about documents, and I have the notary documents, bank statements, etc.. and I'm only asking to show these to you.]
In the same time, given that you were working while in France i.e. self-sufficient, and having completed the degree you came to Canada to finish, I would propose a suspension of the spousal support. I would drop the compensatory claim of having to move to Canada for the advancement of your education and career, as well as the contribution of my dad's work adding value to the apartment, or any other consideration or unequal division claims, etc..
The child support would of course continue as well as the special expenses.

I'm looking forward to your input and I'm receptive to your comments and proposition,
Take care,
Bruce

I really feel like saying: what do you want? take it!
And be over with.


I am so frustrated. Argh.
What do you think of this second email? W should at least say yes or f* off, but she had to reply, right?


Catch you later,
Bruce

[25yearsmlc]

Bruce,

since her father is a lawyer, it's pointless for YOU to explain the law to her.
Anything you say that is self serving or inaccurate, will be used against you as proof that you are still not reasonable.

Just confirm your understanding of it and only when it's needed, and it rarely is.

Remember she has a lawyer father, who costs her nothing...

[/i]

Hello,

To put things in context I will first copy here the e-mail I sent that has not been replied to after two weeks!

Hi W,
I had a busy week-end :), hope yours was good as well.

Ok, below are some observations. Can you provide me with a comment on each bullet point? Hopefully it'll make the dicussion progress.

Have you determined yet what the considered property is?

Why don't you make a fair proposal or ask her what a good one is and NOT THEN Explain your version of it?

Exclusions: property owned before marriage, goods or advantages acquired before the marriage by gift or inheritance which was intended to benefit only one spouse.

you think she does not know this or what it means?? ^^

And if your parents gave you money while married, and you commingled it, it's marital property. Period.

Don't tell her How they never intended HER to benefit from their gift while you were married. OMG That does NOT flatter you or your family...

There are a number of reasons listed for an unequal division of property:

- The length of time that the spouses have cohabited before and during their marriage;

usually The longer you were a couple in some form

the more equitable the division.

Did you mean to write it this way? It's not correct imo. And it sure won't be to her or her dad..

Length of marriage from March 2009 to June 2012 : 39 months. Cohabited: 31 months.

IF you are NOT counting the time you cohabitied as time acquiring assets, do not mention it only to deduct it...(SIGH)

but if I were her L, I'd ask her what she gave up by joining you in your country. What career plans were derailed? Why is she NOW starting over and AS a single parent? Her life is much harder than it would have been if you had not split up.

I don't believe you are truly considering her point of view or valuing it.

- The duration of the period during which the spouses have lived separate and apart.
Apart 16 months, separated and apart : 10 months .

Again, why not just count the time married? You are over complicating this.

Technically you are still married now, remember? So it's still going on

but if they make Separations that are NOT legally filed, into something that you can argue = the end of the m, good luck. But that was RECENT...and so Here's why I don't buy your calculations at all.

You moved there last summer with the intent of living together as a family. You said you only took so long to join her due to your work, so how can you argue you did not believe you were married then?

and YOU filed for a divorce or sep for custodial rights. We understood why but that was recent...


- Date when matrimonial property was acquired.
22 September 2010: 15 months of life in it together

- The contribution, whether financial or in some other form, made directly or indirectly by a third party on behalf of a spouse to the acquisition, disposition, operation, management or use of the matrimonial property.

- Any maintenance payments payable for the support of a child;

- The value of matrimonial property situated outside Saskatchewan.

Length of spousal support:
- Length of marriage.
- Self-sufficiency.
- Presence of a compensatory claim.


Bruce let her dad --you know, THE CANADIAN LAWYER list things.

You're the Engineer from France, and a very biased party to the action...remember?

This comes across as consdescending AND self serving and a little weird.

Like you see things ONLY thru your lens...still. And you believe everyone would see it your way and I just glanced at it and shook my head three times...

You once said you lacked coping skills b/c things went your way in life prior to this.

Okay so, what about when people do not agree with you? How do you deal with it?

So far you just repeat your claims and make no movement towards her position or concessions unless forced and then you complain whenever the topic comes up.




 Are there any other items you think that need to be included in this list?
You mentioned in the past not being interested by maintenance payments, what is your take on it?

she changed her mind about the support, or did you forget that? IT's been a LONG time since she said she wanted nothing from you, it was in the letter she wrote you when she left...


Have a good one,
Bruce

Now you know what I have written and maybe why W hasn't replied yet.

YES I think we do know why she has not replied...

Even before I post my proposed next e-mail I would ask you if you could comment on this one and how I could appear less assertive or like I want to give her are rough deal.

Start by trying to be fairer. For real. Give her half of what was acquired during the marriage and stop whining or measuring how much more work you did in the marriage/house earnings...

you keep doing that. IT totally negates her willingness to move to join you across the world, as if it was a worthless to you and only a BENEFIT TO HER...

I believe if your paradigm really shifted and you learned empathy for her, your wording would come easier and fairness would be easier for you to see.

To be clear,

YOUR SON IS NEVER TO BE A BARTERING TOOL FOR MONEY...EVER....I want to help you.

So forgive me for this if it offends you,

but having to tell you to disconnect money from custody is pretty darn outrageous. And so basic.

Yes some men pretend they want shared custody when all they really want is to lower their child support...that is true.

But they know they are supposed to hide that fact, b/c it repels the Court to hear it, yet the Court may suspect it...

so if you don't get half custody that will probably be the reason...ie that they believe you only want half custody so you don't have to pay as much.

And Bruce, it's pretty clear to me that you DO connect the two. So don't be shocked if the Court suspects that.

Do you have any idea what I"m trying to tell you?



Thank you, this time I am posting my e-mails to you before sending them to my wife.

Bruce

[KenF]

Bruce,
25's advice is right on.

I may have missed it before, do you have a lawyer?

Trying to divorce without a lawyer will only work if there is open communication and both sides want to make it work. There were portions of my divorce that we were able to decide between us, but at that point we both wanted the process to be over as quickly as possible.

seeing that her father is a lawyer, and communication between you two is non-existent, then i think its in your best interest to also have a lawyer to get the process moving. Once the basic framework is in place, then maybe you two can work out the details between yourselves.

as difficult as it is, you must remove all emotions and feelings from the discussion. and work only with facts and figures and laws.

[25yearsmlc]

he does have a lawyer Ken. He is the one who filed, with his L. SHe has a lawyer and also, her father is a lawyer.

But he doesn't like how much it costs. (Who does?)

Bruce feels that the temporary support amount requested of him which ends next month, was too much. That included past amounts not paid.

Anyhow, if you read his thread you'll be able to see Bruce's journey has taken him to some very different places in his heart/head.

Sometimes he has opined that if he were to leave Canada and live somewhere else, and not pay anything or have much to do with his son

he'd be able to contact him in the distant future and explain that his wife prevented him from paying or fathering.

Other days he suggests total surrender although I don't know what that means exactly.

My goals for Bruce would be for him to

1) find balance in his approach, and to NOT connect money to his custodial battles;

2) GAL and develop empathy for his wife. Not necessarily to agree with her perspective, but to understand she's not insane to see things quite diffferently than he does,
and

3) to develop more coping skills so that his moods don't swing so far and so he doesn't make decisions he'll later regret.

It's worth reading thru his thread, imo.

[Big Bruce]

hello,
the above above is only partially correct.

I didn't initiate any procedure whatsoever, but rather received legal stuff at home after I insisted I had my S more.

And I paid all the arrears already in March, support wise. Which by the way erased 6 months of salary.

Therefore the mood swings : basically I can't save money anymore because it all goes W's way, and this situation isn't sustainable.
What of I need a car, holidays, never mind pay a mortgage...
Basically I'm working for nothing, savings wise.

Thanks for your input.
Bruce

[25yearsmlc]

I thought you said you filed something legal for more custody so THEN she responded by filing...

or is that not accurate?

You paid your arrears in March? To me that means you were with holding money b/c you had not been paying before,

so maybe you were at least subconsciously attaching money to seeing your son more, at which point she balked.

Also, if your sitch is not financially sustainable, the court will see that. They are not without logic, but they saw that you had paid her nothing or too little, for months, so that probably irked them.

They MAY take into account your other assets but that is for your L to help with.

You come here and play the Judicial system's victim, repeatedly, and it gets to be irksome.

you are smarter than this.

[Big Bruce]

Hi,

I told W I would file to have more custody if she still refused to discuss it and she did go first and issued the court petition.

Which BTW, now feels like a big déjà vu, since I've been asking W how she intends to proceed now that end of june is approaching. And she still doesn't reply. Should I tell her, like the first time that a lack of response means I take legal action, or just go straight to the lawyer file for trial without bothering to tell her?

And I had paid money before the order, but 1. W didn't want it and cashed the cheque like three months later and 2. Money never was the question, until last minute with her lawyer demanding this and that.

Sorry if I sound like judicial victim, but for the moment I'm still separate from my son, who I see very little and half my salary goes away every month, so my situation is far from comfortable.


anyways, still trying to know how to proceed with W, dialogue doesn't seem to work. in fact she refuses dialogue.
seriously, it's becoming immature and childish from W.
quite frankly, there's no need for such theatre.

any suggestions very welcome at this crucial moment,
thank you,
Bruce