Time will tell if he's done...the question is how do you feel about the entire situation now? Are you done, sitting and waiting or moving forward and living your life as if he may not contact you again?
I am trying not to sit and wait although sometimes I am moving forward so slooowwly that it sure feels that way. One thing about being in a LDR for the last few years of our R is that I have a whole life that was separate from him. I have been to six funerals and sent out more than a dozen sympathy cards in the last five months. No one need remind me that we get one life and only a certain time to live it. At the same time, I am trying not to keep beating myself up because I am not healing as quickly as I would like to be.
Do I still think about him - of course. More than I should - yep, again. But I have noticed that I am less and less upset and that I can go for longer periods of time between thinking of him. Sometimes even a few hours will pass when I do not think of him at all.
Whenever I contact him (if I decide to contact him), I want to be sure that I have no expectations of a response or at least I want to be strong enough that if he does not respond or he tells me something I do not want to hear, that won't set me back to the beginning mentally and ruin all my progress.
Originally Posted By: mizjjd
Originally Posted By: snodderly
Portia, your independence didn't have a thing to do w/him flipping out. Please do not blame yourself for his walking away.
I second this. I guess this is something you'll have to sort out at your own pace. Let me tell you what it looks like from my couch - but I'm missing 2 light bulbs in the over head so maybe I don't see too clearly.
It looks like you feel you, your personality, are to blame for the R going bad. I sure hope I'm wrong on this?
It doesn't seem to matter who/how the LBS was before bomb drop, after bomb drop the WAS insists everything should have been 180.
MizJ you are too cool for words !
Our personalities still come out even in cyber-space. I have always been hard on myself - no exceptions. It used to drive my xSO up the wall. He told me once that if anyone else but me ever spoke to me like I spoke to me, he'd belt them.
Snodderly and MizJ, I don't blame myself for this whole flip-out. But I do recognize that the "reality" of our relationship allowed him and is allowing him to dismiss our R as "just best friends". Should we ever attempt to reconcile or even in a new relationship, I will have to make some effort to be more of a "partner". And if I am totally honest, I guess I do feel like that would hold no attraction for him anymore. Not while he is determined to live behind the white picket fence.
Now that I have recognized that, I also have to recognize that we were OK together for years so he could not have been that unhappy. I will put that lesson down and file it for future reference.
[quote=LindaM One thing that makes me feel that MLCers are crazy, desperate, depressed people and have not just suddenly become philanderers when they have these EAs and PAs, is that they try to hide them, but are SO bad at it. [/quote]
Oh goodness yes! And they get so ticked when you can't stand it anymore and you go and check their e-mail! Up until he was cheatng on me, I went in xSO's e-mail all the time when he needed me to look for something. After he started his OW search, I realized he never asked me to go in his account. He hasn't kept a story straight since I found out. And now that I am paying attention - it was SOOOO obvious!
Have a great weekend, everyone. I am so grateful, as always, for your support.
When the MLCer leaves us, the MLCer makes a choice.
The LBS is left behind with such confusion. Because now we have a choice: act to possibly save the relationship and move forward or drop the relationship entirely and move on.
Ask anyone who has never been through this and they will immediately jump and say the latter choice is the only choice and why would you want someone who doesn't want you?
Part of your heart and brain agrees. And yet....it is not that clear of a decision to some LBSs. Ten months later and it is still not that clear to me.
What do I want to do - acknowledging the reality of the situation? No mind reading or guessing. I know what I want. I want the chance to save this relationship. I do not throw the people I love away. I cannot control his choices or actions but I can control mine.
So, I am taking MWD's advice and "starting with a beginner's mind" and acknowledging that it will be likely up to ME to initiate contact - NC does not seem to be working, so do something different and, if there is any response, I will have to go back to a basic relationship with no expectations.
When I will make contact is still up in the air. Snodderly suggested July. Likely, it will be around there.
I found this Q & A on another site and found it helpful:
Should I Contact My Wayward Husband? Leader: Scout
A Question from a Left Behind Spouse:
I have another question. Basically I have had no contact with my husband for 8 weeks. What should I do? I am scared to initiate contact again in case he does not want it. Also I am scared for myself as it has been easier not seeing or speaking to him.
The Answer From Scout
I understand your fear. I've felt it, lived it, had it claw at me from the inside. Contact, whether you're the initiator or the recipient, is TOUGH at first. There's pain at dealing with a "stranger", there's the possibility of conflict, there's the pain of facing the one thing you want but can't have, and many other reasons. But at the end of the day... it's fear. Fear is not only useless, but destructive too.
It could well be your husband is relieved not to have contact with you or the children. Why? Because he's empty. He has nothing left to give anyone. It's painful, and it [censored], but that's the way it is. And yet he needs contact, and love. He might not think he needs contact and love, but something deep inside him still beats true despite the maelstrom of emotions, and it is this part of your husband that you would be addressing.
There's also every chance that he's afraid too. If you are, why wouldn't he be? After all, the one time he tried it he was met with hostility. Of course, we all know this is not true hostility, but profound hurt, but he won't be seeing that. All he'll be seeing is hostility, judgement. And in his skewy state, given that you haven't been in touch he might have even have talked himself into thinking you don't want or need him.
Try to cast your mind into the future. What will happen if there's no contact? Whether or not you come back together again, you're in trouble. If you come back together again, you'll have to overcome a long period of simply not having a relationship. If you don't come back together again, you're still parents together. The family can't stay incommunicado forever. It's a sure way to REALLY screw everyone up.
The longer either of you leaves it, the longer and more difficult it'll be to reestablish contact. If he's in Midlife Crisis it's unreasonable to expect that he will do anything, so darl, it's squarely up to you.
And so my advice to you is to initiate contact, but not without doing some important things first.
First, you need to know who and what you are. You need to have a strong sense of self - independent of the people around you - and a healthy self esteem. Both of these things need to be rock-solid. If you're going to hold your hand out to someone who is dangling over a precipice, you need to make sure you're standing and holding onto something solid yourself. I know that what's happened has in all likelihood given your sense of self a battering, but remember you are a spectacular human being. You are not what people - including your husband - think of you.
Once you've done this, you need to set some boundaries. Do not allow the possibility of conflict when you contact him. Keep communications simple, breezy, and COMPLETLY stress- and emotion-free. Like Phoenix says, "put a smile in your voice". If he's shown the tendency to be hurtful since he entered Midlife Crisis, remove yourself from the situation. One woman found she could remove herself mentally, but sometimes she had to remove herself physically as well. I've found the former impossible, and can only do the latter. A couple of months ago now I let husband know that I would only talk to him if he was polite. If I've felt tension rising, I've said something like, "You know what? Let's talk about this later when we're both calmer, OK?"
Finally, remove expectation from the equation. If you initiate contact but don't expect anything (and I mean ANYTHING - good or bad) there can be no hurt. Chuck it out there. If he takes it, great. If he doesn't, great. You're doing the right thing regardless of his reaction. You contact him. You contact him because this is something YOU want to do, YOU need to do. If he doesn't want it, what does this have to do with you? He's doing what he wants and needs to do, now you do what you want and need to do. It's only a wild guess, but I think that you might him a bit frosty at first - particularly if he's suspicious - but he'll eventually be OK. And like I say, keep it light, bright, breezy. Nothing heavy duty, no talking about your relationship. NO tears! Make phone calls as short as they need to be to keep yourself under control.
I expect the first time you do this will be very difficult. But you can do it.
//The DB lesson I learned on my previous thread: If you are not ready to rock the boat or have your MLCer disappear resist any and all attempts to have a R talk. Even when the MLCer insists.//
Even when the MLCer insists?... why?, if they bring it up... aren't we supposed to listen and validate?
Originally Posted By: Portia
Yes, to a certain extent, we are. This particular R talk though, he wanted answers from me and I was not in a good emotional space to breeze over things so in that case, I should have simply ended the conversation. There are some things that I do not believe should be even validated. He insisted that he did not cheat on me. I tried to just listen but it got pretty emotional when he kept on pressing. I also ended up shooting a big hefty truth dart and while I do not regret that, we have not spoken to each other since.
Originally Posted By: LindaM
Oh Lord, this is all my fault, isn't it? Why couldn't I keep my big fat mouth shut? Do you think there is still a chance for me? Is this also a clear message to me that he is done?
What do you think? I guess I should ask my DB coach about this. I am so heartbroken again. What a stupid old woman I am
Originally Posted By: Portia
(((Linda))) I would have been cheesed. In fact, something similar happened once between my xSO and I and that ended in a huge brawl session. We are not expected to be super-human, hon. I am the Queen of beating myself up about things (always have been) so believe me when I tell you that your reaction was quite normal and natural.
Do I think there is a chance for you? Yes, I do. Do I think it may also take some time? Yes, I do. You have a good start. He is not screaming for D and he is living in the house. While he is fixing his mother's kitchen, you'll also have some space. Linda, does he not work at all? I am wondering if this MLC is being prolonged because he just feels bored or useless. Maybe that is where the Russian comes in?
Oh Portia, you and Snodderly always make me laugh. It's good to have friends who understand what we are going thru and who don't look down on us as some kind of weak link for trying to stand for our marriages. Thank you so much for your wisdom and support. It's sort of hard to think clearly with so many emotions swirling around, and I HAVE BEEN beating myself up for not following the DB rules, which is pretty stupid since I hadn't even read Divorce Remedy yet when this conversation happened. What happened that caused a brawl session for you -- was it the R conversation you mentioned above where he swore he did not cheat on you? Will you contact him, or are you waiting for him?
My poor H used to be a normal person who worked and played until he broke his leg badly ice skating in Nov 2007. He was laid up in bed getting home PT for months, and since then his body has sort of broken down. It is so strange, but he has had tumors, atrial fibrillation, hyperparathyroidism, a hernia, torn rotator cuff, herniated discs in his spine, Lyme disease, and a couple of other things. The Lyme was the worst I think, as it causes unbearable headaches and overwhelming fatigue. He has not worked steadily since then. He has a job where he cleans our brother-in-law's factory floor once a month. It takes him hours, but gives him a bit of self-respect and pocket cash, which I think are important to a man.
He's had a lot of online friends he talks to that he met on the Language Exchange. They want to learn English, and they help him with his Russian. His first EA was with one of them, and it lasted about 18 months, until she sent him a message meant for another man while they were talking on skype I don't know why he thought she should be faithful to him when he was emotionally cheating on his wife. He was horribly sick at the time, was on intravenous antibiotics at home, and slept for probably 20 hours every day. But managed to talk to Reita the Russian Tramp #1 during those waking hours.
He was still really sick last summer when he became friends with his current Russian Tramp OW. I think you're right, and he was bored and felt useless when they first met. He says he likes to help all these online friends with their English, and said that he really liked the Tramp, as she was a lot of fun and they had a lot of laughs together. Unfortunately, she has now bewitched him somehow into believing that she is in love with him. Probably because besides just helping her with her English grammar, he got to help her with her sexual technique.
He still is not well, his headaches are getting really bad again now that he's off his antibiotics, but he is going to try to push thru his illness and make the fence and help out his mom. I hope the cabinet job takes him a couple of weeks. I will miss him, and just maybe he'll miss me too. Cadet -- if you are reading this, don't WHACK me -- no expectations just a hope!
Are you doing anything fun this weekend? I came down to my office to work about 8 hours ago, and have done nothing but read old threads, and the threads of all my new friends. Compelling and helpful!
Have a great holiday tomorrow!
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
Are you doing anything fun this weekend? I came down to my office to work about 8 hours ago, and have done nothing but read old threads, and the threads of all my new friends. Compelling and helpful!
Same here. Between all this and losing my parent a few months ago, I am, ur...slightly behind. Hard for a former workaholic to be! But now I am going to admit defeat and get out into the sunshine before it sets.
I'm sorry that you lost one of your parents Portia, I must have missed that or forgot it, sorry. My deepest sympathy my friend, you have a lot of misery on your plate to deal with right now. Sorry, Linda
It has been a little rough but I am slowly starting to feel better.
It is strange how situations in life set us back from our "normal lives". I am getting back into my regular routine and once I get there, I can also start working on me with much more intesity. Does that make sense? I think I made the mistake of thinking I could just jump into "improving myself" without rebuilding the foundation I needed to stand on. Another lesson learned. One of so many!
Nothing new to report. I picked up a book (fiction) called The Affair, Colette Freidmen is the author, I think. It tells the story of the BD over the course of a few days in three perspectives - the BS, the H and the mistress. Goodness knows why I was drawn to that book, but there you are. The strange thing was that the mistress' name was the same as OW in my sitch. Yech. it actually was not a bad book and quite close to my experience in terms of emotions, etc. Interesting to see the different perspectives, too.
Reminded me that there are always more sides to a story than mine and that what I think is happening is not necessarily happening. And then I remind myself that it does not really matter to ME because the only bit that matters is what is going on in my life and my reality. He has chosen not to be with me or to work on us. Repeat, repeat and repeat.
Portia, How are you doing? I noticed you worked some over the weekend. Did you take time out to go outside and enjoy Mother Nature's beauty and beautiful weather?
I read "The Affair" and found it interesting from all perspectives. You can't "assume" anything about what he's doing right now.
Stay the path...keep the focus on you and your life. That is what is important right now.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Reminded me that there are always more sides to a story than mine and that what I think is happening is not necessarily happening. And then I remind myself that it does not really matter to ME because the only bit that matters is what is going on in my life and my reality. He has chosen not to be with me or to work on us. Repeat, repeat and repeat.
This is true. I've often learned afterwards that the thing I was SO horribly upset about was not actually happening at all. And the opposite is true too, i've been obliviously, happily paddling my little raft down the stream, only to hit the rapids and learn I'd both dropped the paddle AND developed a leak.
Keep working on making yourself happy, Portia. I think we all must accept that our R as we knew it is over, dead. We can work towards having a new improved R someday, but we will not be the same people we were, and neither will our SOs. Who knows what shape their heads will be in when they finally escape the tunnel, but we know what we'll be like after surviving this. Strong, confident, fabulous. A person only a fool would want to leave.
Maybe I'll pick up The Affair too, sounds interesting. An old movie was on TV before, "Come Live With Me." Heddy Lemar was this Austrian illegal immigrant, whom Jimmy Stewart married so she could stay in the country. In a couple of months she asked for a divorce so she could marry the man she really loved. I said gee, I bet that happens all the time, and my H immediately turned on the news. Hehehe
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
Yes, I did get out on the weekend. Summer is short here, so it is get out while you can.
Linda, I am so impressed with your fortitude and strength. You have been living with this for so long already! The distance keeps me pretty far from his actions so I don't see the crazy. But when we talked, I could hardly believe that he could say the things he did with a straight face. Like talking about other people's relationships and the train wreck that it is - without realizing that the one he is in the middle of is just as much a train wreck. The truth is, from his perspective, he wanted anyone but me. Wasn't sure about this one, but it might be someone else. Never once did he even come close to saying let's work on us.
You mentioned on your thread that you wondered if the MLCer ever understands what it is they have done to us. I wonder that, too. Will he continue to blame me that I did not want to keep up the friendship for the rest of his life? I guess if he gets stuck in the tunnel, he might. In that way, I would not want to be him and have to face what a horrible person I was to someone I said I loved.
Right now, though, I am still in the dark. And I am OK with that.
!