Just saying hello.

[Papa4Life]

Hi Pro. I'm pretty sure you'll get most of the basics from DB. DR is a newer book and offers some feedback following on from DB reader feedback etc.

It's funny what you said about "feeling as if time is running out". I spoke with a good friend of mine who has been a major support throughout my sitch. Now it turns out that HIS GF has told him she wants to leave and bring the kids to live with her mother. He has been in a panic because he is unemplyed, living off of dwindling savings, can't get on the dole because he's still got some savings, like me he's a foreigner here with few friends and no relatives nearby, he's 53, has a foreigThank you, sandi, for your valuable advice. I've been posting on other threads so much, that I seem to be neglecting my own thread. But then again, there's not much to report - my W has her heart set on a D, and while I don't share that goal, I'm okay with it.

You are right about W's motivations for telling the kids that I would still come to family functions. She did want to reassure the kids. But then again, in the very next breath she told them that we each take a week with the kids at the campground where we're heading on vacation, but then again maybe she's planning to have someone else come along, who knows? I couldn't care less, really, because I always have a great time on vacation with the kids. I play things by ear, she wants to plan everything, and then the kids just complain about being dragged to the local tin figurine museum when all they really want to do is spend every waking moment in the pool!

It all goes back to what you wrote about not expecting things to change post-D. When we talked this past weekend about the whole issue of family functions, she opined that co-parenting means being friends and doing things together for the kids. I just had to smile sadly and tell her that we can never be friends. That in order to move on with my life, I have to pull the curtain on this part of my life and keep moving forward.

She actually cried a little, saying that she feels herself being pulled in so many directions at once by people telling her what she should do. For a second there I wondered if she meant that she felt that someone she had been getting advice from was actually manipulating her somehow, but it immediately dawned on me that what she probably meant was that perhaps people have been telling her that her expectations are unrealistic, but she doesn't want to stop working to achieve them so that the new situation will be easier on her.

On a separate note, I dreamed last night that I did something selfless and 'saved' my W somehow and that she was grateful and wanted to be just boyfriend/girlfriend (paging Dr. Freud!). When I woke up, I realized that today would have been our 12th wedding anniversary.

It's like that old Smiths tune, "Last night I dreamt that somebody loved me". No hope, no harm. Just another false alarm.
n-sounding name, and his GF accuses him of being an abusive drunk (he's never laid a finger on his kids or her, does like the 'occaisional' beer but the last time we went out, he slipped and fell so she accuses him of being blind drunk, which was emphatically not the case).

At any rate, he spoke to the local legal-aid agency and they told him that his GF can't take the kids out of school w/o his consent, can't move more than 50 km away, they can't take away his house, he will be eligible for assistance if his savings drops below a very reasonable amount, and unless anyone has ever reported him for abuse or child neglect, she won't have a leg to stand on (he really is a good guy, and his sons love him and would hate to move to their grandmother's house).

So what's the moral here? Tomorrow is never as bad as it seems and things always work out one way or another! So don't obssess about everthing bad that might happen and instead focus on the good things you're working on right now!

[prometheus]

Before i respond any further to the recent posts on this thread, i thought that i should give an update on the dynamic of the situation that i find myself in. I will mention things that stand out for me.

(my behaviour as described immediately below is a good example of something i DEFINITELY need to do a 180 on)

First, when i noticed that my wife had taken off her ring, unfortunately i was not able to hold back my tears. Both she and my youngest son(who was sitting in my lap at the time) witnessed me start to tear up. I got up and left the immediate area because i realised that i was going to be unable to bring myself back under control in the short term and did not want to upset my young son any more than he had been already.

Pressure must have been building up in me because inside the house, i found myself weeping bitterly. Shortly afterwards my wife came into the house from outside where we had been sitting, and came across me crying still. I can't remember everything that she said to me when she saw me there, but it did include her saying that i was trying to make her feel guilty or sorry for me, and that she did not appreciate me getting emotional in front of our young son.

Also, i said something about me hurting so much or something - i really can't remember what it was now - but because i was so upset, it seems W could not hear what i said properly. I say this because she asked me in a somewhat incredulous tone, "did you just say that i am trying to take him away from you?" (by him, she meant our young son.) I don't know where she is coming from with this because it has never been a topic of conversation prior to that moment.

I will hold my hand up to wallowing in a bit of self pity, and even some emotional immaturity, but i won't own that emotional blackmail stuff that she was alluding to.

After i'd had a good cry and let it all soak in i seemed to arrive after a while, in a place of surrender. It was as though, all of a sudden, i could see the futility of trying to engage any further with my wife. I was starting to see how i was owning an unhealthy and unrealistic share of the blame for our sorry situation.

The next day was pretty quiet. I managed to be affable and light hearted in our interactions. The following day, my wife was belligerent from the very first good morning. This continued throughout the morning. Eventually, i decided to ask her if there was anything the matter. "Just the usual" was the reply. I then asked her why she was being so hostile in her attitude towards me. I had been nothing but pleasant and courteous and did not deserve the treatment. She mentioned that she was annoyed because i had arisen before her and she liked to be the first one up and have some time to clear her head.

As she was leaving, my wife told me that the stalemate had to end, the mental torture had to end, we have to separate for the good of everyone. This is a favourite tactic with her - drop a bomb when one of us is leaving. Anyway, as i said goodbye to her i also asked her why we could not simply focus on the children and forget about our relationship? Why does it have to be stalemate and mental torture?

She left after this but i could not resist...i ended up following her out to the car. I was annoyed by her tactic. I asked her why she always waited until one of us was leaving before dropping a bomb. Her reply - "to give you time to think about what i said". I replied by asking her to just drop the relationship thing and focus on the kids. Then she said "OK, but so long as you know that there is no hope ever for reconciliation, we are going to be separated, that we will live together as parenting partners and raise the kids."

I agreed.

"OK", she said. "We'll be besties, and i really like my besties." Then she gave me a hug(very rare) and left.



Later that day i was speaking to a mutual friend ours who we have both known upwards of twenty five years. I told him of the fact that my wife had taken off her ring and how upset i was. He responded by telling me how, a couple of weeks before, he was speaking to W at a sporting event that they were both attending. In his words, she bluntly told him that she had begun divorce proceedings. (??!!) She has not gotten around to telling me that yet. She has started something though but i will leave off on describing that until my next post because this one is waaay too long. Sorry about that.

[Papa4Life]

Ah rats!! Looks like I accidentally pasted one of my old posts smack in the middle of this post! Sorry!

Why on earth can't we edit our posts?!?

[GALbaby]

P..what has occurred is common amongst most of us. Don't be too hard on yourself. Sure, its best not to be emotional in front of our S, but what is done is done. Just get yourself back on track as quickly as you can. My DB coach told me that if you cry in front of them, they feel one of two things, that you are trying to make them feel guilty, or they cannot bear to watch you being so hurt. That can force them out the door. It works best if she stays and you can show your changes. As hard as it is, try to be composed and upbeat when around her. Don't temperature check the R. If she responds negatively, leave it alone. You are taking the high road and that is all that matters. Let her deal with her negativity. Its not your concern. This stuff takes a lot of self-control, but it will empower you once you get the hang of it.

They all say they will never R, my H did the same, and we are back together working on our M. They can change their minds. Focus on yourself and your child. That's all. You cannot control what anyone else does. Keep reading and posting.

[prometheus]

I am finding it very hard to cope with my feelings today. I feel so desolate and lonely. Distractions only work for so long, and eventually i am left facing my own thoughts. Those thoughts!!! Does anyone have any strategies they would like to share in regards to escaping the tyranny of ones own mind?

:-/

[prometheus]

Hi pro,Even if it's just thoughts from the day. It can be very helpful to let stuff out.

I think that i will be doing a bit of that around about now.

What do you think has kept the two of you together for 18 24 years?

I've been wracking my brains over this. Isn't it funny how i struggle for things to nominate as reasons? We kept having kids...that'll do it to an extent. We like/d each other. No, i am struggling to say why. ...and we have been living together for 24 years but only married for 18...not that that is especially important.

As far as her fears that things will revert, those are certainly valid. I'd guess that you would not want things to just keep being the same, either.

Definitely not. Persistence, vigilance, and having a plan should help here i hope.

That said, you may start to hear a lot of the familiar "script" that most will hear. Like "we got married too young" or "I never loved you" or "I feel I missed out on life"... oh, right... you've already heard that last one. It is interesting how common the language that so many of us hear.

Yes, i have heard a shipload of these 'gems', including lots of examples of ways in which i am to blame for our broken marriage. I guess at least some of these are going to be valid complaints, and so be candidates for doing a 180 on? (even if they are couched in absolutes such as "you always" or "you never" etc)

What do you think some of your W's valid complaints about you, might be?

I'm miserable, not easy to be around sometimes, moody, sulky, a wet blanket.
I am not good at supporting her emotionally.

That's bad enough already. There are probably lots more but valid complaints but i can't think at the moment. I will have to think some more on that.
Some of her complaints i have already acted upon and have been largely successful in eliminating the causes, or not engaging in the complained about behaviour.

[prometheus]

Am i allowed to bump my own thread?

[~ kd ~]

You can always bump your own thread, pro.

[RealityTrip]

Hello Prometheus. So glad you are here. I just read your thread to learn about your sitch. Tough stuff friend. I have felt your emotions and experienced the torture of my own mind too. What strikes me when I read your posts is something I wish I had learned or better controlled earlier on: Acting "As If". Controlling my emotions in my spouse's presence and acting "As If" I am going to be just fine no matter what she did. I remember thinking in the beginning that if I expressed my pain, if she just knew what she had done to me then she would snap out of it and everything would be fine. I was so wrong.

What I learned from DB'ing and my mentor's and support here was that rolling in emotions and losing control or trying to reason with her only pushed her further away. Our spouse's don't like the reflection of themselves they see when they look at us and we are broken and emotional. They may be feeling very confused and are searching for stregnth for themselves. If we stop worrying about them, focus on ourselves, they will notice. Your W might have expected you to chase her out to the car. Next time, what if you didn't? You take back your power and control. It took my WAW (who was in a physical affair) about 2 weeks to notice that I was not pursuing and going on with my life. Once you start to really try to detach from her and what she is going through and focus on yourself, one thing happens for sure - you start to feel better. It's a long process and not always easy. I regress sometimes. But we just pick ourselves up and start from where we are.

Hang in there. Keep posting and read other thread's. (((hug)))

[~ kd ~]

As far as the script you are hearing, be careful when you catch yourself saying the same script or speaking in absolutes. Lest you find YOU are becoming the WAS.

I can imagine that you are having trouble thinking of things that kept you together. One exercise a counsellor will provide in M therapy is making a list of things your like about your spouse. It could be anything to the colour of their eyes, the way they laugh, being a great cook, being a loving parent, etc. Something you might try on your own.

You indicate that you've worked on some of the complaints. Are you talking about the ones you listed (sulky, etc) or different ones? What have you done to work on the ones you have been and how can you work on the ones you haven't?