I really think that we can make it, Girl

[RosaLinda]

Hi Forever Young! I read your post on Portia's thread, and decided to drop by and scan thru all of your threads. It is amazing to see the similarities between your W's journey and my H's, even though they are the opposite gender. Same I love you but...speech (although my H switched to the I never loved not for one second over the past 38 years speech this March), alternating coldness, nastiness and friendliness, sleeping in separate bedrooms, telling me I'm a child not the woman he needs, low self esteem. He is now trying to decide whether to divorce me or not, did your W ever threaten divorce? I don't recall reading that she did. The lack of physical affection is a new slap in the face for me; my H maintained frequent intimate relations with me from Jan 2010 until right after his PA in March. That hurts a lot, doesn't it? I'm a really huggy sort of person, and this complete lack of physical contact is killing me.

It sounds as if you are alternating doing great, and getting exhausted by Standing. I think you ARE doing great, keeping your sense of humor throughout, and I love the song lyrics you post! What did your DB coach have to say on Monday?

[uRworthy]

Hey FY, thinking about you. Hope the db coach was of some help.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks for being in the cheerleading section RH. You too Rky!

You asked why your W likes you, but doesn't love you. How can she love anyone if she doesn't love herself? Plus, she does love you underneath it all, buried way deep in her heart.

Awww, thanks T. It's true W doesn't love herself right now. Never did actually, and was quiet and avoided most social interaction. But she is opening up to it now, and hopefully beginning to find her new self. We all know our spouses can learn to love themselves without bailing on us, but for some silly reason they have to figure this out on their own! We not only can't tell 'em, but if we do they will run away even faster!

Linda, yes W threatened D back at BD, and talked about it as a possibility a few times since. Last I heard about it was more than 6 months ago, when she said she was "deciding" if she was going to leave me or not. Now I consider my divorce busted. She's not likely to go anywhere, which is why I'm so frustrated. What is my girl doing! She doesn't even have a Russian Gigolo OM!

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As many of you know, I felt really close to giving W the Reality Talk last week. I was very frustrated with the lack of physical touch, the cool indifference, and the thought of everlasting limbo. I wanted to force a wake up call, and was tired enough that I didn't care much if it didn't work. But I really didn't want to blow it and makes things worse, so I kept my trap shut and waited to discuss it with my coach.

Here are the Cliff Notes of our discussion.

If ever I feel like I will blow up if I don't say anything, then don't hold it in. Say something constructive. Plan it out ahead of time and deliver it at the best time.
Tell: My needs. Ask for: Hugs, hand holding, head/back scratching. More as time goes on. Explain that I don't know how long I can go on or what I will do if the near complete lack physical touch with my W continues.

Think about all of her possible responses. (best to worst) How will I respond?

Before giving the Reality Talk, I can start to initiate simple touch, and monitor the results. Go slowly. Thank her for positive reactions.

Take it slowly one step at a time. I'll know how to respond as things unfold.

Each sitch is different, so you may not want to try this at home kids. I'm actually a little cautious about it myself, even though I calculate a less than 5% chance of it making things worse.

It seemed like W sensed something was up, and changed her response to me. More open, more talkative, happier. Telling me more about her life, and facebook interactions. She's gone warm and cold before, so who knows.

Monday she sent me an email asking if I minded if her and GF went out Wednesday night, straight from work. I said no, that's fine with me. Then Tuesday, she tells me that GF cancelled, and she will be coming home normal time. Today she says GF called back and said lets go out someplace else instead, and W told her sorry, I already have plans for tonight. Her "plans" were only to go grocery shopping with me. She turned down drinks with GF for that? What the heck is going on here?!

When we got home she set up the Rainer Cherries she bought in a fancy bowl and took pictures to post on FB. Now she's counting the "likes" from her friends. You go girl! I've never been on FB.

We're still talking about taking an Anniversary trip at the end of June. Also odd for someone who's not in love, right? I wonder how it will go. Last year we did an overnighter at a B&B only because it was paid for and was a "use it or lose it" situation. It was a little uncomfortable and of course no hanky panky or butt spanky.

[RosaLinda]

Here are the Cliff Notes of our discussion.

If ever I feel like I will blow up if I don't say anything, then don't hold it in. Say something constructive. Plan it out ahead of time and deliver it at the best time. 
Tell: My needs. Ask for: Hugs, hand holding, head/back scratching. More as time goes on. Explain that I don't know how long I can go on or what I will do if the near complete lack physical touch with my W continues. 

Think about all of her possible responses. (best to worst) How will I respond?

Before giving the Reality Talk, I can start to initiate simple touch, and monitor the results. Go slowly. Thank her for positive reactions.

Thanks for sharing your crib notes FY!  Thinking of all the possible responses is a terrific idea. I had my first DB coaching session last week, and I told the coach Chuck that the lack of physical contact was killing me, and that I had thrown my arms around my H and told him I missed physical affection and sex, and he stood there like a statue and answered "well I don't." So Chuck said no hugs but I could start touching him casually, a hand on the arm. At first my H acted like I'd burned him but now, after a week, he has touched my shoulder twice. How stupid that would sound to anyone who has not been through this!

Did you try the simple touch, or go for the whole "needs" speech? How did she react?

We're still talking about taking an Anniversary trip at the end of June. Also odd for someone who's not in love, right? I wonder how it will go. Last year we did an overnighter at a B&B only because it was paid for and was a "use it or lose it" situation. It was a little uncomfortable and of course no hanky panky or butt spanky.  

Your W sounds as if she's coming around, waking up out of her fog a bit. The end of June is a long time from now. Ut the fact that she's planning the trip sounds very positive. I hope you guys have a wonderful time together. My H and I went away this weekend to a family event and he solved the hanky panky question by inviting his elderly mother to share our room. You shouldn't have that problem at least!

[Takevowsserious]

Hey FY!

You must know how to show a girl a good time at the grocery store!

Interesting stuff from your DB coach - let us know how it goes!

I meant it when I said that your wife loves you deep inside. I've seen glimpses of how much H hates himself, it is very sad. It's almost like they can't believe we would actually love them. They haven't discovered yet just how much we really do. They need to find that path to loving/accepting themselves first...

The anniversary trip sounds positive... Never know ... Maybe her stomach will get itchy, and she'll need you to rub lotion on it while she's in her undies... Just sayin

Keep bustin a DB move!

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks for sharing your crib notes FY! Thinking of all the possible responses is a terrific idea. I had my first DB coaching session last week, and I told the coach Chuck that the lack of physical contact was killing me, and that I had thrown my arms around my H and told him I missed physical affection and sex, and he stood there like a statue and answered "well I don't." So Chuck said no hugs but I could start touching him casually, a hand on the arm. At first my H acted like I'd burned him but now, after a week, he has touched my shoulder twice. How stupid that would sound to anyone who has not been through this!

Did you try the simple touch, or go for the whole "needs" speech? How did she react?

Been there done that. Several months after BD I asked for more touch… she said she couldn’t do it. I foolishly pressed for an answer why, and ended up getting bombed all over again. I learned my lesson and backed off and did not touch. She’s nowhere near as depressed as she was back then, so now I figure I’ll carefully move ahead with the plan. I can back off at anytime if it doesn’t go well.

I have made a point to touch her twice this week and there was no bad response from her. I will continue slowly and see how it goes. It seems she doesn’t want to leave me, so hopefully she’ll work with me on this.

When they give us the dead hug, or pull away from us, that means we MUST back off. No pressure.

[ForeverYoung]

Hey FY!

You must know how to show a girl a good time at the grocery store!

LOL, thanks TVS, I guess so. Now if I could just get her out of the frozen food section!

I meant it when I said that your wife loves you deep inside. I've seen glimpses of how much H hates himself, it is very sad. It's almost like they can't believe we would actually love them. They haven't discovered yet just how much we really do. They need to find that path to loving/accepting themselves first...

So true… And sad. Once when W was talking about how death wouldn’t be so bad, she said “It’s not like I’m hanging around for anyone.” I said I don’t know if you thought of this, but I’d miss you. Her response: I don’t know why.

The anniversary trip sounds positive... Never know ... Maybe her stomach will get itchy, and she'll need you to rub lotion on it while she's in her undies... Just sayin

Note to self: remember to pack the itching powder.

[uRworthy]

Once when W was talking about how death wouldn’t be so bad, she said “It’s not like I’m hanging around for anyone.” I said I don’t know if you thought of this, but I’d miss you. Her response: I don’t know why.

That is sad, Fy and depression talking.

[note to self: remember to pack the itching powder.

And once again, I laughed out loud. You are too funny. Funny is good.

Fy, you have a good handle on this, I think. And I feel that your wife is not going anywhere and is trying to find her way. And then hopefully, finding her way back to you.

[RosaLinda]

Been there done that. Several months after BD I asked for more touch… she said she couldn’t do it. I foolishly pressed for an answer why, and ended up getting bombed all over again. I learned my lesson and backed off and did not touch. She’s nowhere near as depressed as she was back then, so now I figure I’ll carefully move ahead with the plan. I can back off at anytime if it doesn’t go well.   

I have made a point to touch her twice this week and there was no bad  response from her. I will continue slowly and see how it goes.  It seems she doesn’t want to leave me, so hopefully she’ll work with me on this. 

When they give us the dead hug, or pull away from us, that means we MUST back off. No pressure.
 

It is hard for me to back off. This has been going on for over three years with my H, but last Sept he and his current OW broke up and he came out of his trance and went back to being my beloved husband again. Completely back to his old self. For over five months. 

Then the Russian Tramp recontacted him again the end of January, they got back into an EA, then in March she flew over here from Moscow for 2 weeks of sex, to seal the deal with him for him to divorce me and marry her so she can get a permanent US visa. 

When he returned from his 2 week PA, he said he had been showing me physical affection because he knew I need it, but decided he does not want to "pretend" any more. And has not touched me since, except for touching my shoulder twice last week. He walks by me as if he does not see or hear me sometimes and is friendly sometimes. Right back into the Replay tunnel.

It is so perplexing and heart breaking. Jan 2010 I got the I love you but... speech, and in March 2013 the I never ever loved you not one second in the past 38 years speech. 

The only thing that keeps me standing is the support and successes of the people on this board. It sounds stupid but the fact that your wife wants to go away for your anniversary gives me hope that my H will love me again someday. Maybe by our anniversary!

[Cadet]

[quote=ForeverYoung]It sounds stupid but the fact that your wife wants to go away for your anniversary gives me hope that my H will love me again someday. Maybe by our anniversary!

or by the time you retire.

NO EXPECTATIONS! WHACK