Reb a appreciate how you work through things and keep coming back here.
About the texting, I think it's your D's issue to handle since it happened when she was with him and she's the one who was hurt by it. Maybe you could help her with how to handle it if the situation comes up again.
If you approach him, I'd do it in a friendly sort of way, "H, D came to me (insert feeling)because she saw a text from OW on your phone when you had dinner with her." And leave it. I'd also OK this with D before talking with H. Only do this if you can show no judgment.
Yes, difficult.
Getting beyond the judgment is hard but it's only when we do that that we can have really honest Rs. When we judge, we also usually use blame and shame.
That never works.
There's a quote from Marshall Rosenberg: judgments of others contribute to self-fulfilling prophecies.
On a different note. What are you doing for you? Do you have a hobby that's just yours? I don't want to hear about what you do for/with your Ds, what do you consistently do for you.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Reb, Speaking as my experience as the one who had an A, I would say it took 2-3 years after before I was really ready to do the work I had to do in my M, or at least until that is what showed to my H.
I appreciate your input so much LTH. Thank you. I want to believe this, but my pride gets in the way and I feel foolish.
I'm not the woman I thought I was a year ago. I always said (and H knew very well) that an A would be it for any R with me. No second chances, it's over. Sometimes I even think H had an 'exit affair' because he didn't know any other way to work on problems.
Then I really studied my marriage and realized my culpability. I'd like to work on R now and try to make up for the recent years we were reacting to hurt. It's frustrating because I feel H won't give us a chance and my natural reaction and hurt bubbles to the surface and takes over my hard fought for knowledge and understanding.
Labug, you're a constant support and I'm so grateful! I appreciate the quote about judgment. I'd like to say to H something like 'it is completely your right to communicate with anyone you choose. but in order to move forward with building trust & r with me or daughters, ow would have to be out of the picture, even as friends. Not doing so continues to hurt dds and me.' Then it boils down to his decision - gonna continue to hurt us or gonna stop communication? Then the cynical side of me says, no he'll just hide it better.
Alright what am I doing for me? Obviously for those following, my dds have always dominated my life. BUT, the funny observation is that the things I do for me now are kinda vain and NOT what I would have spent time doing pre-BD. I actually would have been judgmental about the time-wasting activities I do now weekly/daily.
I used to enjoy reading a lot and was in a book club I didn't enjoy. Now I read self-help books and dumped the book club. I used to play piano almost daily. Now I get manicures and my nails are too long. And I love the nails with the wackiest colors. It makes me happy, but something I never would have done before. I used to work hard at keeping a clean house and structure and shopping for home. Now kids are always complaining there's no food in the house and I indulge in watching nonsense TV I never allowed myself to watch before (currently on Season 5 of Lost!). I go to the gym, I go for walks with a friend, I meet girls group every Tuesday for dinner, I do a lot more socially that I really enjoy. I go to bed by 10 every night (used to not go to bed until midnight and had to use the final hours of day to finish tasks). I've been volunteering at food shelter every other week. My hair is nearly blonde from all-my-life dark brown and I enjoy fashion and being basically proud of my appearance. In my old life, it was all about the kids only.
Maybe I'm having my own MLC because everything I do for myself is, as I said, vain & self centered. But I don't really care right now. I feel better about myself (externally) than I have for probably all of my adult life. It is an internal conflict, though, how I don't get as much done as I used to and this equates to lazy in my head. My natural drive is all centered on me when I used to get everything done for everyone else. And I've expressed earlier, this makes me feel guilty.
It does need to be addressed I'm just confused because I thought I couldn't make any demands on who he communicates with unless he commits to wanting to try in R!
True, you can't really enforce boundaries with a separated WAS, and without enforcement, boundaries are pointless. IE, the WAS has no incentive to comply with boundaries if they are done with the LBS anyway.
Quote:
H has only committed to wanting to rebuild with dds and is 'not closed' with me.
The WAS pushes the LBS away first and reconnects with the LBS last.
I'd like to say to H something like 'it is completely your right to communicate with anyone you choose. but in order to move forward with building trust & r with me or daughters, ow would have to be out of the picture, even as friends. Not doing so continues to hurt dds and me.' Then it boils down to his decision - gonna continue to hurt us or gonna stop communication? Then the cynical side of me says, no he'll just hide it better.
Think about this for 48 hours. Then come back and read it again.
Did you talk to your D about how she might handle a situation like that in the future.
Tell your cynical side to take a hike...unless you want to be a cynical person. I missed much of what life has to offer by being cynical and fearful.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
reb, I like the things you're doing for you. I was always a person who had to get the work done before I could have fun. I felt guilty if things I was doing didn't have a "purpose." And you know that working and having a house and children means the work is NEVER done. The truth is, I felt guilty if I was out doing anything that wasn't in some way productive.
I'm breaking free of that, little by little. If you saw my house right now, you would believe it. (see, that judge voice creeps in)
You and I share similar interests. You watch Lost and I'll watch Undercover Boss!
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
reb, I like the things you're doing for you. I was always a person who had to get the work done before I could have fun. I felt guilty if things I was doing didn't have a "purpose." And you know that working and having a house and children means the work is NEVER done. The truth is, I felt guilty if I was out doing anything that wasn't in some way productive.
^^^ I could have written every word!! I'm trying to break free too. Funny thing about the guilt - I have plans to stay the night at a girlfriends house next friday, we're having a girls weekend (first time ever!). I asked girls 'i'll be gone all night friday and won't be home until saturday, I know you're old enough to stay by yourselves but can I ask dad to stay with you or check in on you guys? He isn't around much and would probably enjoy getting more time with you guys' (me again managing his R with girls, I need to stop that!) Both girls said no way. And I start to waver and say I don't want them to be alone, I'll get you dinner first, I don't have to go (fell into old patterns for a min). Then D18 says "you don't need to feel guilty or try to overcompensate for dad not being here". That woke me up, I was doing exactly that! Feeling guilty and talking myself out of having a life.
Sometimes reb the innocent of youth is great. I remember something my s20 said to me many months ago about my sitch: "it surprised us, but wasn't unexpected". Hits home hard.
ME:51 W:46 M:25 S:22, S:20 Divorced 16/9/15 BD 10/12 W left 12/12 with OW, affair confirmed Nov/12. Dark since 6/13 I"m in a new relationship since Feb 14.
#1 goal - I'm going to attempt to write this post with no mindreading or judgement. Just the facts, maam.
There was a thread one time about the WAS/MLC coming out & going back into fog, I need to read up on that to try to understand and not lose faith during this time.
Maybe it's more of a journal entry, things are just accumulating and my reality of having to deal with this is fighting my db knowledge of no pressure, pma, let things play out. I'm laying out the facts but don't know how to handle this next step.
H was more involved and engaged in April, increasingly distant in May. He has spent very little time with dds and attended 3 concerts. If one is sitting in the audience, thank you for coming but that doesn't count as quality time (is that judgement? I think it should be a fact).
H alcohol use is a continuing issue for me & girls. I feel it is something that needs to be addressed and MC would offer some support. H posted pic of beer on instagram last night & I'm not friends with him so didn't see it. D15 made a snarky comment on post & sent me screenshot. I told her she was right to stand up for what she believed in but it would be better to talk to her dad in person about her feelings. I can only do so much. But they don't have that kind of R soooo...
H spent 2 hrs with d15 today and it doesn't sound like he mentioned anything about trust recovery (theme of last MC appt 2 weeks ago). d15 volunteered that H 'bashed' me though, about a totally off the wall topic (believe me, there's plenty for him to bash me on if he wanted to). d15 says they were talking about her music and H says 'i'm sorry your mother made you only take classical piano lessons. i wanted you to take jazz but your mother would never allow it.' d15 says 'i can play whatever i want now'. H says 'i know, i just want you to know that i tried'.
HUH? I don't understand where this comes from when he just complimented me for 'my dedication & girls are so lucky to have me as their mom' after concerts last weekend.
So the parent 'bashing' (pretty benign in my book) will also have to be addressed in MC. But do I have a leg to stand on here, since it's a second hand account of the conversation? Also the general lack of parenting time from him, as I expressed recently I'm building resentment for having to be the solo parent 24/7.
Lastly, there's the issue of H's continuing/public communications with OW that hurts dds (and obviously me). I've been thinking on it for a few days, labug, and had nearly decided to choose to believe H and let it go. Then yesterday, ow has 'liked' a couple pics of H's that d18 has pointed out & it really bothers her.
It's really odd what's going on now, because I was upset about H's pre-drink stop after concert last weekend and didn't know how to bring it up, so I sat on it. Then he posted that pic last night and now there's more ammo. Same with H's texting OW & I didn't know how to react to that so I've been mulling it over. Then OW publicly 'likes' H & there's more ammo too... things are building in a really unhealthy way. It helps me take a huge step back and see the sad reality of my situation.
This, in my mind, is turning into a H bashing MC appt. I would like a way to present the facts without attacking H. Or, is it better to let it all die down and not say a thing? My problem with that is that it directly effects my dds so I have to do something. I'm trying to teach them to take care of things on their own, but the reality is that I can't even take care of things on my own! I'm waiting and building a list for the MC!
I realize I'm to the place where my posts need to not be all 'H did this & that'. I don't want to handle things how I used to and I am still unsure of a new approach. But there has been a sh!t storm brewing. It's a lot to deal with right now.
think H is with OW right now. I was at my bookclub. Gave H opportunity to be home with kids. He said he was "working" Doesn't call to check on kids. he is supposed to come over tomorrow for lunch. so close to sending a text...Kids expect him to come over.
M48 H50 M21 T26 S20 at college),S17,D15-cp, dev. delay- cogniv 5yrs old PA confirmed 7/2012 H separates 9/2012 H move home 2/13& 7/13 lasted 2weeks.ILYNILWY OW still in picture. h filed 10/13
BUT, the funny observation is that the things I do for me now are kinda vain and NOT what I would have spent time doing pre-BD. I actually would have been judgmental about the time-wasting activities I do now weekly/daily.