New to this ...

[PatientMan]

Well now you got me all excited. What's the last resort after the LRT?

Well there's letting go and then there's letting go. Some people say they are letting go, but they are really just pursuing it as another "technique" in DB'ing, it's another way of trying to bring their WAS back. So they have expectations that letting go is going to do something. Then there's letting go, when you finally come to the realization that you have no control over anything but yourself, that those aren't just words, but cold, hard facts. You release your spouse and move on without them and you have zero expectations that you will ever reconcile with them. You're living your life and leaving them to theirs. Some people might see it as giving up, but it's not really that, it's just accepting things as they are and moving to another place. It's well and truly accepting that you will be fine whether you continue life with or without your spouse, and finding your contentment and PMA in life without them. Sometimes when the LBS reaches this point the WAS suddenly realizes they're losing the LBS, and they're drawn back to them. But the LBS is often so fully detached and independent by then that they don't know if they even want the WAS back.

Thanks. I'm somewhere between those two locations, but definitely not at "true acceptance with no expectations." I'm trying. Don't quite know how...feel like I'm driving blind.

To illustrate, I have dropped my rope, but have discreetly stepped on it with my boot to keep it in place and am looking the other way hoping no one else has noticed. That's where I AM, but not where I want to BE. Trying to get there.

[steveh27]

I think enough hatred has been flung the last 2 days as it all just came to a head as I mentioned. I can honestly say right now, I will be ok with her moving on. I am there!!! I know what it feels like now - because she is now contacting me about everything. We had a bad argument this morning and she threw her rings and said take these. She was getting really emotional and confrontational because I said I was not sure if we could do this amicably through mediation right now because of what the last 2 days were like.

My feelings of sadness and desperation have turned into protection and anger in a way, that I really dont care what she does. Because of this, today, I am not sitting with a mediator but I said she is more than happy to go the route of getting a lawyer if shes short on time. Maybe when my thoughts chill a little bit and we stop having these arguments I will sit down in that venue.

I also mentioned that this OM will not be part of my kids life. Not sure if I have grounds to make this happen. It might be my emotions talking but Im really concerned of this guys character seeing as he's doing this to his family and also his wife is having medical issues, on top her dad's health is dire. Any thoughts on this from people who may know.

Anyway the tables of turned a bit with communication, she forcing communication lately. For example, her text today - "I know Im the last person u want to talk to but can you pls answer me". I was honestly in meetings and couldnt anyway - but it does feel nice to be on the other end a bit. And knowing that is doesnt mean anything either way - because Im moving on with her or w/o her.

[Spartan]

You're acting completely on emotions and it's not going to get any better or easier until you figure out a way to calm down. This blows but acting with hatred and anger isn't going to help.

It's fine to be angry...as long as you use the anger as a shield. Flinging around $hit just to hurt the other person makes a mess and will get you no where. I think you need to stop communication unless it's about the kids until you guys can chill out a bit.

I also mentioned that this OM will not be part of my kids life.

Nothing you can do that I know of. This is another thing you're going to have to let go of. You have absolutely no control of what your W does, who she sees, or where she takes the kids. All you control is how you act and how your kids see you. They're old enough and will figure things out on there own. Make sure you don't do anything to hurt their relationship with their mom, you'll only regret it in the end.


This stuff is extremely hard and hurts like hell. Being hateful will not make it easier or hurt less. Take some time for yourself and kids and let the emotions soften a little before talking with W. You'll get through this, just give it time. Nothing has to be decided today, tomorrow, or even this week.

[Tallula]

Ditto what Spartan said. No way to keep OM away. I get it, I do. But, you can't. Blaaaa

Your kids are old enough to see what's going on.

Focus on who you want to be, feel the emotions and sit on a reaction. I even say now, "I need some time to process this, I'll get back to you." If it's something I know I'll be super emotional about, email email email.

[Breakdown]

I hate to tell you Steve, but you are not "there." In fact, you continue to take yourself further away from "there." Read Spartan's post again, because he nailed it.

You think you can't use a mediator because your pissed now? Really? Sounds like you are trying to control her....still.

You told her she can't have OM around your kids? More control. And really, unless he's got some sort of abuse history or something similar, there's no way for you to do anything about it. At best, you might be able to get your W to agree to some mutual rules regarding the kids and other people...but that's you working together for the betterment of the kids.

So far, I just see you reacting and letting your emotions run rampant. I don't see you making positive changes in yourself yet. You're still trying to control...

Consider backing off completely....no communication unless it's about the kids. Focus on you for a while and just let everyone take a break til emotions cool.

[sandi2]

I agree, you aren't there yet. I'm sure you think you think you are, and are probably wondering what I know about it anyway. Steve, you think you're ready to let go b/c you are so angry at her and the stitch. But when you really let go of her, you will let go of the control.

Maybe you don't see it, but you are fighting hard to hang on to those control panels you've had for a long time. But it won't work this time. Let's be realistic for a minute. You can tell her how OM won't be a part of your children's lives, but the truth is that if they divorce you and OM!s W, they are free to M each other. If that happens, he will be ithe step-dad to your kids....and he will definitely be in their lives. In your heart, you know that fact scares you to death. But. nevertheless, you cannot control it, even if you think you can. There have been other LBS to say the very same words to their WAS. But it still happened.....and then they realized there was nothing they could do to stop it

So, you can vent to us as much as you feel the need, that's fine......but it's also a pretty clear sign that you are still fighting it.

There is a place in Michele's DR book where she tells about the last resort after the LRT, but a lot of people seem to miss it. It is just a short paragraph out of the whole book. However, you have to be "ready" to really let go, or iit has no effect b/c your W will simply believe you're just reacting out of your anger.

[AnotherStander]

To illustrate, I have dropped my rope, but have discreetly stepped on it with my boot to keep it in place and am looking the other way hoping no one else has noticed. That's where I AM, but not where I want to BE. Trying to get there.

Haha! I love that analogy And I can really relate to it as well. I've learned that letting go happens in stages, and at each stage I thought "OK, I'm there, I've well and truly let go!" Then I got to the next stage and thought "Hmmm, well I thought I had let go but now I can see I was still hanging on, but NOW I've really let go!" And then another stage happens, and another... So I think we often convince ourselves we've let go, but we're really somewhere in the middle of the process of letting go, but not at the end yet.

[steveh27]

Sandi - You seem to be a pretty special person, as sometimes you know when to be hard and when to take a delicate approach. You actually did both and I appreciate that - cause you guys know that I'm hurting as we are all sure what that hurt feels like - so thank you.

Your right - my anger is controlling me right now. I do not feel this M is fixable at this stage and the anger is allowing me to move forward somehow. I am in a better place though with this, even though I still have love for her. I need to be there as anywhere else would be counterproductive to my mental health. Look, it's not easy, it's pretty fricken hard to deal with the women you loved for 17 years - "fall out of love" and take her heart to someone else. I know I'm preaching to the choir for many of you. Yes my anger is still there, but I oddly still have compassion for what she's going through also. I can make the statement "you made your bed, now lie in it" to myself but in reality a part of me doesnt want to see her hurt. I see it as a process just like the MLC that I'm going through with desperation, denial, anger and acceptance part of it. I feel I'm bordering in between anger and acceptance right now and every day I do get closer to accepting it.

We didnt talk to one another really yesterday, my youngest had a ice cream party at school yesterday and we went as a family. The W asked where her rings were, and I said I have them. She asked for them back and I said I gave them to you once and you decided to give them back. I followed it quickly, as it was a bit immature to say, with ... I have them home, I will give them to you.

This morning I couldnt get out of the house fast enough and she caught me in a talk. We have to go away this weekend for my sons soccer tournament and we normally go as a family. So she asked what my plans are. I said I didnt know what I wanted to do, but I think if I go or you go or we both go with the family I would be open to it. She agreed and asked if "I" would be ok going as a family. I said I would but I haven't made up my mind.

Now, the obvious issue here is the OM family will be going, not sure if he will bother going, but doesn't matter to me. It matters to the W alot because she broke down as I haven't seen her do this at all really since. Yes some emotion and some crying before but this was a hurt that I havent seen. She finally really apologized for hurting me the way she has. Of course I couldnt hold back emotions either I said ...

M: I'm not sure if you really know how bad you hurt me.
W: I do I really do - Im sorry.
M: It's so hard to understand where you are right now. I really dont want to fight about this anymore. I've been angry lately because its the only way I know right now to protect myself.
W: I know - me too.
M: Im sorry but Ive been forced to think my "W's name" is gone - and the person here is not her anymore.
she starts crying again
W: I know ... I know
M: I know your worried about this weekend, a part of me hurts for you about this. I still have my feelings for you and this part of me wont go away anytime soon. And I can tell you obviously have feelings for me about this, but we have to stop this fighting between us.
W: I'm just hurting right now - I dont know how to handle this.
M: (Im emotional right now walking away) I know you are. I'm not looking to hurt you anymore - I love you. I have to go to work ... have a good day Ill see you later tonight.

As I try to compose myself driving to work - I think back on our conversation. It's really the first I've seen the old her show through. As strong willed as she is, she is a very compassionate person who loves to help people and has always kept the glue on our family. I can tell she is struggling with herself over this for once, or at least showing me that she is.

However I know this is done. She wont give up her feelings for OM right now, and that is a deal breaker obviously. But its talks like these that pull me back in - it didnt change how I feel about moving on - but it almost feels like a game of tug and war a bit. I have been doing my best on doing other things. I went shopping the other night for some clothes as I've lost weight through this. Had dinner with a friend last week. But thank goodness the kids have been going in opposite directions most nights so it keeps the separation.

Frustrated today in general but head up.

[steveh27]

Patient and AS - Yes so true ... this is what it feels like. You feel good one day about it then - wham! Your back to hopeful feelings. The analogy is great - I agree that you have to seem to have let go of the rope. The trick is to look the other way as hard as it is. Im definitely not doing this very well but the longer I hesitate the worse it will be for me unfortunately. Need strength from someplace.

[Breakdown]

Steve, you are starting to see it...that is the first step! It's a process and it's going to take time...and work.

I had huge issues with control, so I know how difficult that issue is. Even when I thought I was past it, I was fooling myself. You have to really look hard at some of these things to see the truth of it. And you have to realize that most of what you've been doing, is not working....so DB, do something different.

In your conversation, I see some positives, but I also see that it is mostly about you. Is that a common theme in your M? Do you think your W feels like you really heard her?