A New Beginning - after 2 years...

[NLW]

KG,
I find myself in the same predicament.

My D is finalised but we are still immersed in the financial settlement.

The D actually brought a sense of relief, even though i had been dreading it.
The anticipation was over, it was done, and even XH immediately became nicer to me.

Now the haggling over significant $$$ is ongoing and it's even worse than the D process. I can't see how to DB through this. We are adversaries, pure and simple.

Thanks for articulating the problem so well.

[Accuray]

KG,

The advice I've read here is to leave the adversarial bargaining in the hands of your lawyer and don't get into it directly with your spouse. While I agree that is a fine guideline, I don't think that serious disagreements can help but intrude on your daily life. At best it's an elephant in the room.

I think you do have to accept that things will be adversarial while you don't agree on key terms of the divorce. Even after its finalized there will be bad feelings if one or the other of you are not happy with the outcome.

In the end it comes down to "look, this has been decided, we can either fight about it every time we communicate or we can learn to accept the fact that divorce is hard and neither of us will get everything we want."

You can control your own attitude in this regard but unfortunately H will be H.

Wish I had a good answer for you but I think you're right -- protect the kids first, yourself second, and then DB.

Acc

[AnotherStander]

Is it even possible to DB when you are in the middle of a D?

Not always, sometimes you have to put DB'ing on hold in D, especially if the interest of you and/ or your children are not being properly addressed. There may be some hurt feelings afterwards, but do what you must for now and deal with that later. Like Accuray said, use your L as much as possible to buffer those bad feelings.

[needgrace]

what a great post kg and what a great question...

i think you can protect yourself and the kids while also acting from your best self but it is true that the D process is no friend to positive changes in the R..

could it be that H is coming from a place of fear about his future that blurs his sense of what is fair? and could his underlying guilt and fear (that he is unaware of) about how the D will impact the kids cloud his view of you concerning custody? i say this not to mindread but to perhaps see if a different frame may help you..

so you are protecting your own and the kids future from this person who can't see well, that is what you distrust, not him... and so that you are not internalizing his view of you during this which also comes from this place of not being able to see.... and so that you realize that there is nothing you can do to change how he sees you right now, no matter how hard you try, he sees you through the lens of his own guilt and fears.

you are not being adversarial or judging him unfairly then, you are just realizing that he is not able to see clearly right now... and you are aware that it is hard for you as well to see him clearly, which is why i think you continue to check yourself with others and here about doing the right thing... that is kindness, KG.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((kg)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[sayitaintso]

Hey KG-

I am in the middle of the legal battle and it has not been an enjoyable experience.

We have settled our custody and are now working through the financials which we seem far apart on.

Our discussions regarding the D were continuing to not get anywhere and I eventually told her that I will no longer discuss any of it with her and she would have to work through my attorney.

That has been a huge relief emotionally and also a good tactical move imo.

I believe you can and you should DB through this but I also believe you should always be DB'ing.

DB'ing is for you KG. Its for you to live your life as you wish and to present yourself to the world as you wish to.

Your relationship w/ your H may be improved by this but that is not your sole purpose for db'ing, is it??

I am dealing w/ broken trust as well.

From your post it seems that you are allowing your H to influence/control your decisions. Are you ok with this?

I worked so hard and continue to do so on getting to a place where I make decisions that I feel are in mine and my kids best interest.

Regardless of what my W may think or do. Not to induce a reaction or avoid one but regardless of one.

Yes he will be angry and spew venom and judge you, etc.. Does that make you wrong? Any less worthy? A bad mom?

Are you gonna allow him to decide that or are you gonna decide who and what you are and how you want to live your life?

[Tallula]

"I guess I ask because I judge my behaviors based on a standard of trying to be kind and do the right thing. So when the distrust comes into play, I do feel guilty that perhaps I am judging my H unfairly, that perhaps I should just continue being kind and trusting, because that is the person I want to be - regardless of my H's motivations and actions... Yet, I also think about my kids. I believe I have a responsibility and moral obligation to think about their well-being first - and that perhaps being distrustful and overly cautious during this D process is the right thing to do - for them..."

I am a trusting person by nature. I refuse to allow my sitch to change that within me. But, what I have changed is that I watch people's actions, and proceed accordingly. My H has been a total jhole of a husband. He sleeps with OW, so I don't sleep with him. When he was being unkind and cruel, I went NC except for kid stuff. When he started no showing on the kids, I stopped depending on him. But, he has said from the very beginning that he will be more than fair to me in a D and toward the kids. He has not wavered on this. He ran out of money to live on and has not once asked for it from me. His paycheck is still deposited in our joint account that he does not use for his living expenses. This was agreed upon when we separated. He has changed all of the above things as well, but I'm still not sleeping with him...hehe.

Anyway, I guess my point is, that being a kind and trusting person doesn't mean we are a chump and trust everyone no matter what they do. You need to take care of you and your kids. Period. He has shown himself to be less than trustworthy in the money department. Proceed accordingly.

You are awesome. The end.

[keep_going]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in and given their opinion – Acc, AS, NLW, NG, SIAS and Tallula. You have all given me food for thought and brought up good points. I love coming here and finding ways of challenging myself through the different perspectives you all give me.

I think we all agree that when going through a D we need to protect ourselves – financially, physically and emotionally. Healthy boundaries are what help us achieve that and I think that is not the issue for me.

Perhaps I wasn’t very clear in my post. I don’t believe I let my H control my actions anymore. My situation is “old” enough that I am at a different place in the grieving process. I believe I have reached more acceptance, and while there are still moments and surges of pain and sharp grief, I am for the most part, doing well and moving on with my life. I have established and enforced healthy boundaries with H. I have also reached a certain level of detachment where I see things more clearly and continue with my own path, regardless of H’s (or others) actions that I cannot control and that could affect me if I let them.

I am also protecting myself legally and use my L for most D-related things. I keep my cool when H reacts negatively and immediately back away without trying to defend or argue. Most of our communication is by email or text now and we hardly ever talk anymore even on the phone. In fact I have not seen him in person for 10 days now. I have gone as dim as you can go considering that we have 3 very young children together…

I am not sitting still waiting for H to come back. I am moving on with the acceptance that my M is over and it’s just a matter of time before all the administrative stuff is settled. I don’t wonder about his daily comings and goings most of the time. Yes, certain things remind me of him (after all we did spend 18 years together), but those thoughts don't dominate my every waking moment and I rarely let thoughts of H and OW affect me in a significant way when they come to me.

I am extremely busy with my life (which I find a blessing at this time) and am focusing on what brings me happiness. Most importantly, I am focusing on improving every day as a person and I am not doing it for H at all. I am well beyond the “I just wanting to save my M” stage.

I was posing the question more from a perspective of a “am I doing everything I can – given the circumstances, given the situation – to act in accordance to what I am striving for…”
The question was really inspired by Kate’s Place post:
“At the end of the day, I can control how I react to H. There is nothing so bad in my life that requires me to be mean, petty or rude. That allows me to treat others with dismissal or disrespect. I refuse. If you cannot abide by the simple tenets of humanity then I will be polite, but you are no longer allowed to affect my life, period.”


I find that the short and quick answer in my place is yes, for the most part, I am trying my best given the situation. Yet I also agree with Tallula – being kind and trusting doesn’t mean we become chumps.

I have read a lot around the boards about people going thru a D process and I guess I agree with Acc and AS – there is just so much DBing you can do (in relation to your S) when there are inherently antagonistic issues permeating your daily life and interactions with your S. Yes, at the very least, they bring a white elephant to the dynamic that is impossible to ignore. Because of my inherent distrust, I am very guarded of what I share and how I share with H, I take everything he says and does with a grain of salt and even more – I basically wonder what is the hidden agenda behind things; and I know H feels and acts the same way with me…

So I guess my point here is that all of these attitudes or behaviors that help us establish healthy boundaries and take care of ourselves could increase the chasm existing between us and our S when we have all these really emotionally-charged issues related to the D. There are real fears based on real issues that can and will affect our future lives in very significant ways. And so it becomes practically impossible to reconcile the difference between looking out for oneself and looking out for a renewal /healing of the R and connect on some meaningful and intimate way with our spouses.

Coming to this realization is good, now the task at hand is to accept and be ok with that answer and just let things happen as they need and go with the flow until the dust settles…

Thanks again for helping me go through this in my head and with you all.

[JuneReN]

I believe you can and you should DB through this but I also believe you should always be DB'ing.

DB'ing is for you KG. Its for you to live your life as you wish and to present yourself to the world as you wish to.

This is what I believe most. Of course i started out like all, using DB as a method to repair my marriage. It repaired me.

KG: I knew you had the answer in you lol! You just had word and thought soup going on in your head. Sometimes difficult to strain what you want out!

Protect yourself and your kids, sorry H doesn't see the value in what you say regarding custody. Most likely a money thing for him, no?

I understand all the feelings you have and how you feel you cannot trust H with the financial aspect. When someone who has grown as much as you have in the journey still cannot trust, don't you think there is a good reason? I do. Let the lawyers deal... ((()))

[Maritimer]

I can relate to your H feelings about the children. I wanted 50/50 custody but experts say it is not in the best interest for the kids. Most fathers want to see there kids as much as they can and when someone tells you that's not healthy for them it gets frustrating.

Not seeing your children frequently and loosing half your paycheck is a tough pill to swallow. Depending on how he expresses his frustrations it could be focused on you.

I have thoughts that my W is not wanting to give me more custody because she loves to be in control. I will always have to play by her rules. It takes time to accept this.

[keep_going]

Maritimer –

Your post really touched me... I can feel your pain and can see how much you are missing your kids. On top of that, you didn’t choose to be in this situation - your W left, so why should you now be punished by not seeing your kids, or financially…

I do believe my case is a bit different, though and I share it so you can see that things are not always as easy or black and white as they seem. I am not trying to convince you of anything, just sharing with you another perspective...

When my H left, he said he wanted a D and I’d have to support myself because he didn’t want anything to do with me. Our girls were 2 and 3 and I was 9 weeks pregnant at the time (and he knew it).

He went into party mode and would come visit the girls whenever it worked with his schedule, unplanned and unannounced. Sometimes he had dinner with us, sometimes he would just crash on the sofa. Often times he was only immersed in his texts with OW and leave the girls watching TV... This went on until I set boundaries for when he could come into my home and asked that he left his phone in his car. He accused me of being irrationally jealous and trying to control him.

When he moved out, he had a completely empty spare bedroom at his place, yet didn’t get furniture for the girls or had them spend the night until months after moving out. A month before our son was born, I asked if he was getting ready for his arrival. He said he didn’t realize the baby would also spend the night with him, that he didn’t have a crib. He added he was unsure if he could handle all three kids at once. In the end, he agreed to having all spend the night, still only during the weekend because it would be too much for him during the week since he was working and I wasn't.

The first time he brought up 50/50 custody to me was after he talked to a lawyer (and denied it). He brought me a settlement proposal to figure things out “without fighting and lawyers.” We’d share 50/50 custody, he would give me no alimony (although I was legally entitled to 6-7 yrs. of it) and we would split all children’s costs “50/50.” The way it would work was that I would need to separate all my living expenses between what I spent when I had the kids, vs. when I didn’t - and he would contribute to 50% of kids' expenses for only the time they were with me. This included gasoline, groceries, etc.

When he first asked for 50/50 custody, I was also unsure if that was the best for the kids and told him so. From a purely practical standpoint, how was I going to be nursing a newborn if he wasn’t with me for 50% of the time? Yet I also knew that the kids need their father too. I was very confused so I talked to two therapists on my own. I wanted to make sure I was being fair and not acting from a place of anger or control.

They both said that given how so very young the girls were, and due to the fact that I'd also have an infant shortly, that is was not advisable to have the kids going back and forth between two homes, resulting from a 50/50 split. At the time, my H was also traveling frequently for work and to see OW, which made the situation even more complex.

When I told my H, he was livid and started accusing me of wanting to control him and taking the kids away. I tried to convince him, but failed. I then asked him to go see a counselor together so we could both state our case. I promised him beforehand that I would abide by whatever the counselor’s final recommendation was; and that if that meant 50/50 custody, I would do it. And I meant it…

The counselor came back with the same opinion – 50/50 wasn’t the best for our kids at least for the next few years.

We have agreed to a temporary 65/35 custody arrangement, yet he is still very unhappy about it.

I used to invite H to join us during our outings and invited him to come to my place. He always declined and I reached a point where that wasn't working for my detachment either, so I don't invite him anymore. Needless to say, he never invites me either.

H says "how can anyone in their right mind say that it's best not to let a father be with his kids 50% of the time." I get why he is upset, yet I have chosen to trust the experts given our situation...

At the end of the day, and even if I am making a mistake, I know my intentions re. custody have always been to do what is best for the kids, so I am good with all of this and have learned to detach from my H’s anger about the issue.

Yet that doesn't mean I don't empathize with a parent wanting to be with their kids and I don't doubt that he loves them.

As for his intentions re. asking for 50/50 custody… His own actions since he left have made me doubt if he is not just financially or selfishly motivated. Yet since that is outside my sandbox, I have continued operating from a place of doing what is best for the kids since that is all I can control...


thanks for stopping by. It's time to start a new thread, so please visit me there!