Not a huge deal, CB. What I am getting at is, your W is, for some reason, pining over (past) life in the other community. You... ALSO... have some affinity to the other community.
I do get that. I get what it is like to get that feeling of, "[i]I so love (XYZ city)." Sometimes, there's no words or quantifiable value that one can put a finger on.
Yet, so far all I know based on what you've posted, is that you used to live there, you enjoyed your time there, and you still have season tickets to the basket ball team's games.
It's all "feel good" stuff.
Will the kids get a better education, there? Is the cost of living better, there? Can you get a better job, there? Can your W get a better job, there? Of the people you know there, do they really have the time to entertain you, or be entertained by you, now that their life is full of their own obligations and responsibilities?
What real VALUE would you and your children and your W have, if you were to move to the other community?
What you are asking seems to be, is the reality of moving there going to match up to the fantasy that she has of moving there. The answer is no, but nothing could live up to that fantasy at this point. I would have to get a great job, could it be better than mine? Maybe. The kids have great schools now and they would have to go to public in new city (additional $15k/year or so), plus they would have to make new friends. Could they? Of course, but I worry about them not getting attached to anyone after moving so often.
But, I love this city and have many close friends there. And yes, they have lives and living there is very different than visiting once or twice a year. Have tried to explain this to W after she returned from her visit a few weeks ago and saw so many of our close friends that weekend. This is not going to be the norm, clearly.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
When we started therapy, it was stressed that we needed more one-on-one time, specifically date nights. We did two weekends in a row, and it felt great. I planned one then for this Saturday and got theater tickets for a Broadway production at our brand new theater. This was going to be a special night and I struggled, but was able to get great seats. Plan was dinner, then play. Two days ago, D9's schedule for her last/state volleyball tourney came out and it is two hours away. Worse, the championship games are mid-late afternoon.
I thought we were going to go to the three morning games and then leave to get back for date night and this morning W said she wasn't sure and was having second thoughts. She felt bad missing the last games and that D would feel sad we weren't there. This caught me off guard and instead of just affirming, I tried to affirm, because truthfully, I did understand as I would feel a bit bad as well, but I also tried to make the case to still go to the play. We were civil, but I told W that prioritizing our kid's sports over us was what got us into this problem. She said that what got us into it was not focusing on us and this is a unique situation. She said if we go to date night her heart wouldn't be in it as she would be thinking of D, so I finally gave up, but made it clear that the biggest reason I was unhappy was that I would have hoped that her first instinct would have been to say "I will be sad to miss the last three games, but this is more important to me". She said that was unfair. We ended that I told her while I wasn't happy with the outcome, I appreciated that she felt she could be honest and that I could with her.
But, this clearly showed how the pleasantries of the past month have been the relationship equivalent of "small talk" and we haven't really gotten anywhere.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
OK, so there are some clear "must haves" that you feel would be important, in order to move to the city. That is exactly what I was looking for. And... I really was not concerned about your W's "needs" or fantasy at this time.
Whether it is your W's fantasy, your kid's fantasy, or YOUR fantasy of what the value of moving to the city might bring... a move there should be based on some valuation that is fairly realistic. ie. Better job, better schooling, more cultural opportunity and value, better support...
Yes, sometimes a "leap of faith" can make great changes. That leap though, should be made AFTER due diligence of looking at real values.
RIGHT NOW, it does not seem like a move there would be valuable to you or your kids. Moving to the city can certainly be something that you continue to look at and a job offer for you would probably be number one on the MUST HAVE list, before you would move there. Or at least a significant amount of money socked away (rule of thumb would be three to six months of living expense in the city; enough time to successfully obtain a job).
I am sure you understand all of that. I'm just posting validation of that. Your W's fantasy is just that. A fantasy. Just as it would be a possible "dream" of yours to possibly move back there. Not yet real, but something to possibly work towards. Having a "leap of faith" right now is hugely risky and not something that should be taken lightly, especially as a responsible parent who needs to worry about the well being of the kids.
It is unfortunate that the schedule for your D's volleyball games has interfered with your date night plans. I have to agree with your W thought regarding your line of thought being unfair to your W. While your M is important and your D might have been OK with the two of you not being at the games, it does appear that you really were asking your W to choose between you and your D.
Right now your W's priority is likely not on the M. So the only thing that might have swayed her mind would have been if the night out was MORE important than being at your D's game.
You will have to work through your disappointment. It does svck, for sure. How could this all have worked out differently?
Right, that is a tricky one, since it is not your job to "fix" things or try to manipulate your W.
Your W's priority is not the M as for the time being, she is "ok" with the status quo. If that were different, she would be doing things differently. She would be pursuing D. She would be working on the M. There would be "signs" that she is changing and therefore the sitch would change. When we talk about DBing being changing ourselves to change the sitch, what the LBS often does not see is, the WAS / MLCer is changing or has changed themselves, which changed the sitch and... the LBS then can not continue to operate in the same pattern they have been. That also happens if the WAS decides to work on the M.
Anyhow, as your W appears to not have a priority on the M (otherwise she would likely see the value of going on the date night and missing your D's afternoon games), she is resisting going because she thinks it's an "either/or" condition. IOW, either she goes with you to date night or she stays to watch D's games. In an either/or condition, she would have to see more value in going on date night. If it's not for working on the M, then perhaps it would be to have a great night partying and dancing and getting a tattoo or body piercing... She will do what motivates her more (or alternately avoid what she'd rather not do).
So you have a few choices: + figure out what would motivate her to go on date night (which would be the equivalent of you trying to "fix" her and make her happy) + figure out how to change Saturday from an either/or condition (which is still potentially fixing, yet with a more altruistic frame; a "win" for everyone) + let date night go, svck up the financial loss on the tickets (or sell them off to get your money back) and just enjoy the day + or you could even just go on "date night" by yourself
Which option would get you closer to your goals? Or what other options can you think of? Perhaps "date night" in the community where the games are and arrange a ride home for your D with another parent who will be at the game?
KD, Realistically, option 3of is the only viable one. If I push the idea of still doing a date night, I think it will come across as desperate and needy. What I did before leaving for work was that I suggested that because I planned this one, how about if she planned the next one? She said snidely that this play wasn't going to be in town and implied that she resented the suggestion.
Your observations are all accurate, really genius level stuff. I can't believe how well you nailed it! So, another way to look at it is she isn't pursuing D and that is something I need to appreciate it more. But, my frustration is that the effort is not mutual and this was a reflection of it.
Any suggestions for a good way to respond today? We haven't texted or had any contact this morning, do I ignore it, suggest a Sunday night date night, send flowers with a "Thanks for your honesty this morning" note, or something else? Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I agree with you on option 3. Pushing could lead to a tense situation. Letting it go can ultimately send your W a message that you DID hear her and that you accept her desire (to stay at VB and not do date night) in a positive way. Of course, do not point any of that out to her.
Moving forward on this specific point, let it go. Do not bring it up. Go to VB and really enjoy yourself. Even if it is not having fun WITH your W, DO enjoy yourself. Cheer on D and her team, join in positive chants and chats with other parents.
Be that same guy who would go to his home team's basketball game... think about this... really... Even if you have season tickets to the basketball games in the other community, why can you not transition all that energy and spirit to your kids' sports?
IF your W brings up date night, just let her know that you are not worried about it, that you are happy to be at the VB game, and then drop the subject.
Yes, stay positive about the fact that your W does not appear to be pursuing D. Look at how T^2 is handling his sitch. His W is half in and half out and sometimes wants to run, but other times is content with staying. Meanwhile, he continues to work on himself, stay detached (non-reactive to the best of his abilities)... things WILL change in YOU and that will change the sitch...
As for anything further with "date nights"? Well, what do you think? Do you think that she would be willing to do more date nights in the future? Do you think that she really would set the next date night? I know you want her to show her level of commitment, but she may agree to be in charge of the next date night, yet never do it. That will be frustrating for you.
Can you give us a little more detail or idea as to how you planned "date nights"? Did you plan on doing it every weekend? Was this something that you would keep doing indefinitely? I think you indicated that it was working, for you. Is that correct? How many have you had, so far?
I have defintely been the planner, but she has gotten the sitter and she has said, both to me and in therapy, how much she has enjoyed them. So, I probably need to continue to plan if we are going to do them.
Also, we didn't agree on a frequency, but to get back to how we used to be, which was 2-3/ month. Sometimes planned, sometimes just dinner out.
So, you are suggesting doing nothing today? Just pretend nothing happened?
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Yes, just "act as if" nothing happened. That's not saying nothing happened. It just is a conversation that the two of you had and the results were, no date night saturday and VB is the entertainment and all is "good" in the world.
If you truly accept that to be the case... and it CAN be the case... then there will be no need to "act as if", as it will be a reality... for you...
On date night, what you were doing was working. Your W has indicated that she may not be "able" to do the planning, so keep doing what you are doing. The planning may be too much pressure for her, right now.
And... I really was not concerned about your W's "needs" or fantasy at this time.
think about this... really... Even if you have season tickets to the basketball games in the other community, why can you not transition all that energy and spirit to your kids' sports?