DM45 LBS 4

[AnotherStander]

Dm45, there's a lot of anger permeating your questions. Ask yourself how you can present those same questions/ concerns in a manner that will not put W on the defensive. I think if you pose the questions that way you're only going to get through 2 or 3 before a big fight breaks out.

Do I EVER point out what is wrong?

No, but it's OK to talk about your concerns. For example, when you say:

"Do you think it's ok for him to be out at 230am?"

You are insinuating that W thinks it's OK for S to be out in the middle of the night whereas you think it's unacceptable. You are blaming her for S being out. Instead, you might say something like:

"W, I trust that you are doing what's best for the kids, but I wanted to mention that one night on the late shift I saw S and D getting in their car at 2:30 in the morning. We haven't talked about boundaries with S16 in a while, personally I don't like seeing either of them out that late but especially S16, what are your thoughts on this?"

I'm afraid eventually, if not already, she'll talk herself into thinking this is all ok, the kids will not be affected, that life won't suck if she kills the M.

She already thinks that. All WAS's think that. They think the kids are flexible and bounce back quickly from these sitches. And you will never be able to convince her otherwise so don't try.

Im not the best person, and probably the worst person, to tell her these things and have her listen. But if not me, who?

You are coparenting WITH your W, not telling her what she's doing wrong. Try to look at it that way. The two of you are separated, but you're still a team when it comes to your kids. Figure out how you can work together towards a common goal.

[Dm45]

No, I did not have a revelation that her adultery, tearing up our family, was right. Nor that continuing down this path is right.

I had a revelation about the way our marriage was. Me not providing enough support. Me being controlling, manipulating, and when that didn't work bullying. She was right and is right about that.

I guess maybe I don't believe she knows what's right...I didn't know where I was going wrong. Rationalized parts of it, other parts I was blind. I have huge regrets, and huge desire to make things different.

So, we "met". Not really a meeting.
No arrangements were made. I had to just show up at the dentist appointment for S16. Very short visit, just impression taken to send to lab. Conversation virtually none. How's work, etc.

Once we got outside I asked where do you want to go to talk? (S went and sat in car)
She said she can't she has C.
Me:last Friday you told me today was the day you could talk about what's best for S.
W: I know. But I have to be at counseling at 11. (this was a lie her appt was at 12)
Me:it's 920 now we can at least get a start.
W:I have other things to get done.
Me:well at least tell me what it is you think is best for S.
W:I want him to stay with me.
Me:well it's obvious there is nothing I can do about that and youve gotten what you want. Is he going to school?
W:Yes I'm taking him.
Me: where is he after school?
W: my sister is helping with that.
Me: well we still need to talk about this.
W: I don't want to now. Not without 3rd party.
Me: let's go do it at C
W: you want to meet me there at noon? (before she said it was 11am)
Me: sure
W:I don't want to do that she's not expecting that.
Me:well let's drop S off at school and talk now we've waste 10 minutes talking about not talking.

Back and forth, back and forth.

I asked why we couldn't talk it over ourselves. Does she even know if and how I object on this issue. She admitted she doesn't know. That she's afraid I'll bully her..........., I said I am completely powerless in this issue, and all other issues. She has decided to keep him with her. I have no say. How can I possibly bully.

She said she's just afraid to discuss alone. I said what are you afraid I'll do to you? She said not physically but twist her words around. I think that means she knows I have valid points that she wants to ignore.

I asked why she had hired lawyer. She said to get S staying with her. I asked why she had paid $100's to L when we hadn't even discussed. She said it was a free consultation and she assumed I was against it. Her assumption is right, but we don't need L to figure that out.

I asked what role she saw a third party having. She doesn't know.

I said I don't think it's ok to have him there seeing her go off to bed with that man at night, or asked if she thought it was ok. Don't remember which.

She said how do you know what I do. I said you don't deny it and I have to assume.

At one point she said let her go pack up her things and move back. I said ok. I said I didn't bring it up you did. Are you really going to do it? She said no because it would be because it's what I want not her. I said there is nothing keeping you from doing it. I said do it because it's right. I said I've done many things I didn't want to do but did them because they were right.

Several times she said she's just a puppet. I'd like to know who's pulling those strings. I am the puppet. I have no say in how my marriage turns out at this point.

Toward the end I said she was on Planet W(used her name here). Got a facial reaction. She hates any implication or accusation that she is selfish. So i said I messed up in our marriage and hurt her terribly. Now she's hurting herself and everyone else with her own selfish decisions.

Asked if she was really thinking the future through with her actions.

I have no idea what order all of this conversation was in.

Why didn't I validate anything at all she said. Or, when she said she cant talk, say oh, darn when is a better time? Maybe then she wouldnt insist on 3rd party. Because I thought we would have time to talk, discuss. I always feel like time is my enemy, that the longer this goes on, the less chance we have for R.

I know I'm still trying to use logic where logic supposedly does no good. Don't know what else to do, how else to act.

I am so hopping mad. But in a few minutes or hours I will be back in fear and grieving out of control. Angry is where I feel right. But I know I'm not right. About some things, yes. But not how I handled today.

Immediately visited pastor after. Finagled an IC session for tomorrow.

Pastor said God won't help until I let go and let him be God. WTH do I do with my mental and emotional energy when it feels wrong to focus on anything but the fact that we've screwed up our lives and need to fix it?

[Dm45]

She just sent me text we are on wait lost for C.
My reply:
Thanks and I'm sorry I didn't handle this morning so well. I was fearful in the first place, confused, and then plans changed & we didn't really get to talk. It didnt feel fair and i didnt handle it well. I'm not trying to excuse it I'm just sorry.

While I was typing this post she texted
I'm sorry too.

[Dm45]

Wait list for C

[labug]

How do you feel today?

Often when we are hurting the feeling is so uncomfortable we want to blame others and usually that "other" is our S.

I think your sarcasm with me is another form of that, I don't take it personally at all because I know you're hurting, but think about it. Check out the definition of sarcasm.

If you do this with your W, along with the badgering it is understandable that she would want a third party there.

These things are fixable but you have to decide you want to fix them.

[Dm45]

Thank you for asking, labug. Today I'm working 6am-2:30pm and am on lunch right now.

I feel 'comfortably numb'. I'd say about 20% of time thinking of sitch and having uncomfortable emotions, which is very low for me. I was even able to hum a few songs in my head, which is new too.

I have ic this afternoon after work.

My goal is to make it to next meeting with W and C without going bats, worrying etc.

My pastor's comments yesterday seem to be affecting me most right now.

More to say, but lunch is ending. Maybe later.

Oh yeah, the sarcasm...know all about it. A habit I need to break or control. Thing is, many people think its funny, until it's not. Great for kidding around at appropriate times, but a Terri pd communication method.

[Dm45]

IC saw a marked improvement in my demeanor. I smiled a few times, brighter face, etc.

I told him I really don't know why I'm not worrying right now. I think it may be 2 things: what my pastor told me yesterday, and, I really don't have any hope of seeing or hearing from W until we meet w/C next week, so I'm not stressing over how to make it happen.

He had an interesting take on the releasing, detachment...if my W is resisting R because she blames me for her pain, then not pushing, pulling, manipulating takes that opportunity for blame away, makes her see that yes, her decisions are a source of pain.

[Dm45]

After a couple days feeling detached, woke up on the edge of the pit...anxious, angry, etc.

No contact for 4 days. I don't intend to, until I need to find out for sure about Thursday and meet w/C to discuss S.

I sure hope I'm doing the best thing.

[Dm45]

Texted wife today, to ask about talking in front of C. She said still on wait list. That's about what I expected for some reason. I asked if she's still afraid to talk to me, and she said she'd just feel better with someone else there.

I asked "Are you saying you don't want to see me at all now without someone else there?" she said that is how she feels right now. I said I don't understand, asked what did I do. She said I didn't do anything she just feels intimidated.

I said that breaks my heart. She said she's sorry, it's not because she's afraid of me, it's more that she can't express her feelings clearly without getting all jumbled up.

I asked how will someone else help with that, she said she just thinks it will.

I ended with "Well I guess the ball's in your court. We know lots of people. Not all of them would we need to pay."

About 2 hrs later I got a call from my B that my uncle, age 52 and grandfather, 90 were in a car accident and flown to hospital. Texted her to let her know. She called me immediately, tearful about it. Told her what I knew. She then asked if she could come over and talk tomorrow, just her and I. I said of course. She said maybe we can stay on task.

I don't know what she means. I am trying not to MINDREAD. I will start off by letting her decide what we talk about. Presumably S16.

What I think is best for him:

Living in a home with 2 loving parents while attending counseling. Possibly military school or some other alternative. Been reading up on that.

If that's not possible, living with her, not drunk OM who doesn't see anything wrong with living with a married woman. Need to word that better. Counseling

If not that, then I think it's best he be back home with me. Counseling.

I really have no plan, other than to try not to be intimidating. I thought I had been good about that lately, and she had said I have. Perhaps not having a plan will help me to not manipulate.

Grandfather and uncle are conscious and stable btw.

[labug]

Glad to hear that your uncle and grandfather are doing OK.

How about you just listen to her and don't say anything? Then take time to think about it when you're alone.

From your words in your last post and in previous posts, you take every opportunity to let her know that according to you, everything she does is wrong.

So listen and don't respond, tell her you have to think about it. Then do that, really do that, not from your judge mind but the mind of a father who wants what's best for his son. A father who realizes he doesn't have all the answers.