Suckerpunch down to the wire

[labug]

Baby steps!

[AnotherStander]

Man, what an explanation, AS! You expressed that in words that I fully grasp and understand. Thank you for your effort in helping me, "get it".

You're quite welcome! RetroV was a goldmine of info on communicating, I just wish we had gone years ago before our M was this far gone.

I didn't reply much about it other than saying, "I am empathetic for wife. This is a really tough situation and she is trying to handle it the best she can. Please realize she is the same person she has always been. This is just a difficult time for her and I. I am sorry that it was awkward for you".

EXCELLENT!!! Now that is the right approach! It wouldn't hurt to add something positive as well, like "Please realize she is the same kind, good-hearted person she has always been." or whatever positive attributes you think are appropriate. Because when you say good things about her, it WILL get back to her (the same as if you say bad things about her). And people's attitudes towards her will change as well, they'll treat her kindly rather than as a black sheep.

[25yearsmlc]

It's not that I read malevolent intentions, but lack of clarity which will create conflict and will create more negative feelings between the two of you unless you can learn to be more clear. For coparenting's sake I think that's really important.

What you described the first time is not exactly the same as what you quoted the second time.

But when you make an appointment during time that your w is considered "on duty" assuming your wife defaults to carrying it out, that's imposing! So your initial question would be more palatable if it included acknowkedgment that youre asking her to do something. "Do you mind taking her at that time?"

Her question of are you taking her was a reasonable request for clarification And was a yes or no question. Either: yes I'm just letting you know about the appointment or no I was hoping you could take her, Let me know if you can't and I will arrange to. Since you didnt answer her question you still dont know who's taking her, and youre both probably feeling frustrated with each other.


EXACTLY

it's as if you think there will be a conflict you can avoid, by NOT being clear. But it's not true.

That conflict avoidance, almost always makes things worse. For sure it Never improves things. Just festers, confuses, deceives, etc...



thats why i sggested youll get along better over coparenting D if you dont pussyfoot around making a clear request or clearly answering a yes or no question.

i wonder if you feel like its nicer or more polite to be circuitous, and i have a sibling who is like that. it is annoying and leaves me feeling manipulated becAuse instead of a clear request she gives me a whole bunch of words geared toward eliciting an offer from me, if i can figure out what she wants. annoying and unassertive.

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS^^^ AD...it's almost passive aggressive. It's a refusal to admit that you are ASKING HER to do something. God forbid you have to say "thanks" or "please".

Instead you pretend "my daughter is ALL I care about" and blah blah blah so, what, you're a hero...?

come on, you wanted HER to take your d, and you didn't care what the hell she was doing then, WHICH YOU ADMIT. "I could (not) care less what she is doing at 10:30..."

Geez SP, You know someone who likes to be treated like that? I don't.

this is a lot to read into that harmless little interaction, i'll grant you. but you were only recently accused of not listening to her through your entire marriage, which is a huge statement, and in this little interaction you did it twice, first in not clearly soliciting her input on and second in not hearing her question literally and answering it yes or no.

I think half your problem was communicating via text message. Maybe this would have been resolved quicker in a quick phone call, with please and thank you to make it clear youre asking her assistance not imposing on her.

YES!!! And SP, regardless of what happens or who you end up with if anyone, you have to say Please and THANKS when you are asking someone for a favor. Even if it's YOUR child and hers, it's still making HER do something you did not do yourself (or not clearly).

I get the feeling that a favor, a "please" or "thank you" owed is like a point against you on the scorecard. but it's free to say Please and thank you.

costs you nothing....wish you could see how much it costs you NOT to say those words.

You need to clarify it today if you didnt already. How about: "sorry if it seemed like i was assuming... Can you take d to the dentist appt? I wd appreciate it! Let me know either way; if you can't i will take her." Hopefully she will respond to that so you have this little matter cleared up!

[swoop]

I will defend myself on this note. I honestly do not know of another person who says "please" and "thank you" more often than I do. I blew it with my interaction with W. I admit it, and I own it. I have done it over and over again. However, I am a very appreciative and thankful person by nature. Take a look at almost every post I make, almost always a thank you or word of appreciatation in there somewhere. I am not as much of a cold controlling prickly jerk as some might think...haha

[swoop]

GAL" activities for the last few days.

yesterday, hard working day, followed up by redneck slip n sliding with my D and her friend. The weather was gorgous.

Today, Another hard working day....brutally hard actually. I followed that up by taking my Mother and Daughter for a nice dinner and a play. We saw Beauty and the Beast. I scored some front row and center tickets. It was amazing. Daughter, Mother and I all had a blast! Great show.

[25yearsmlc]

great family activities SP.

To me, they are sort of GAL b/c they are not about your w and you had fun and did not obsess.

But I'm one of those fans of GAL who believe in involving new people or people who don't know my sitch. And new hobbies or classes or the return to an old hobby or sport or activity that I have dropped but once loved.

That's why I ask about Joining a club/organization, volunteering somewhere needy and of interest to you, teaching--anyone anything, coaching, being on a team yourself, studying something new, and or doing something musical...all healthy activities that will introduce you to new people who DO NOT speak to you of your wife.

How refreshing might that be?

Always involves other people, with the possible exception of working out (though I think doing it with others helps that too but I needed "me time" back then and so I exercised alone, by choice)

Unfortunately I see a lot of solo activities that guys seem to choose for GAL and I think they/you miss a valuable experience. They stay in their comfort zone, and they don't see the problem with that.

As for saying "please" and "thank you", hey, all I can go by is how you speak to your wife, vis a vis HERE. I don't think you are a jerk. No one said you are but it's interesting that seems to be what you heard...(???)

Look, I don't know you and I have not met you or seen you interact with anyone, let alone your wife.

But at times your own words can indict you.

Your verbatim copy of the conversation with your wife (well, I think it was verbatim)

did reveal some deep wrinkles in your approach.

Those wrinkles were there a few months back, and are still there. That's what I mean by stubborn. And it concerns me.

Either you are stubborn, or you are not getting what we mean, which is why we are hammering it a lot. Or...??

We believe you are not getting it, as opposed to just ignoring us.

To sum up the deal with that last interaction with your wife, a lot was covered by Adinva. Do you get what she was saying?

Your message was NOT clear and absolutely DID place an expectation on her.

Then Your subsequent comments reflected the reality that you do NOT in fact care what she is doing at a given time. YOU SAID THAT...

that's not you being independent...it's an attitude and belief system you have,

about HER time being of less value than yours.

It's your assumption that whatever you are doing is inherently more important than what she is doing

unless she can overcome that presumption.


And you still see nothing Off about that belief system...so that's either you being stubborn, or you not getting what we mean,

or a choice to go on as before.

[adinva]

I will defend myself on this note. I honestly do not know of another person who says "please" and "thank you" more often than I do. I blew it with my interaction with W. I admit it, and I own it. I have done it over and over again. However, I am a very appreciative and thankful person by nature. Take a look at almost every post I make, almost always a thank you or word of appreciation in there somewhere. I am not as much of a cold controlling prickly jerk as some might think...haha

Blowing things up into a huge insult that is clearly not true is another way to avoid listening to someone. After all, you're not a cold controlling prickly jerk, so obviously I just don't know the real you, the one who is always appreciative, so what I said has no merit. But wait, I didn't say you were a cold controlling prickly jerk! I do not like having words put in my mouth.

I was trying to help you see something I saw, and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

[swoop]

There I went with more poor cmmunication again. Advina, I was not trying to put words in your mouth. All of those things have been used to describe me at one point or another, not necissarily by you.My statement was very generalized. All I was trying to say is, I actually do use "thank you" and "Please" quite often. I am an appreciative person.

I also want to make a point about my poor communication regarding my feelings for wifes time. It is not at ALL that I think her time is less important than mine. I did not assume she should take daughter to the dentist for that reason. That literally had nothing to do with my reply. The context I was focusing on, and only due to some of you believing that I was using this to gather information about what Wife was up to, was that I really didn't care or wish to know what she was up to at 10:30 am. I just didn't explain myself properly I guess. I just intended to point out that I was not on spy missions at all regarding wife. I was not trying to keep tabs on her. That was pointed out and mentioned, and I was trying to make it very clear that those were not my intentions....it all literally boiled down to poor communication on my part.

I hold on to and appreciate every single bit of advice that is given to me by all of you. I really do. I think when something is said or pointed out that I don't find accurate, I reply in a way that is taken out of context. That is nobodies fault but my own. I realize it...sorry

One of my biggest GAL activites lately has been the renewed interest in motorcycles. I have been putting more miles on my bike than I have in YEARS. I am, for the first time, actually finding it very theraputic. I have also been reconnectiong with lots of old friends that I had lost contact with. I am getting out there as much as I can doing new (okay maybe old) things that do not revolve around my life with wife.

[labug]

Read Ad's post again, and again. There's more there than I think you're seeing. You live in the extremes, everything is all bad or all good, there's no middle. You put yourself down to make a point or get others to feel sorry for you. Ever hear of automatic negative thoughts?

[25yearsmlc]

Sp

so you were not trying to spy on her time...fine. But you DID SAY that you "did not give a rat's ass" what she was doing at that time, (or words to that effect.)

To ME, that is either angry denial of spying (which you say you're not doing and I accept that)

OR it's some sort of devaluing of her time.

It's definitely a hostile way of expressing yourself.

So, that's my point.