Crazy little thing called MLC

[AJM]

Bring up the subject of MLC? To what end? You can say it, but honestly do you think he'll hear it? I did, and I can tell you it wasn't "really" heard.

Why don't they file? Who really knows, but my guess is fear and guilt that manifests as anger in many cases.

He feels guilt and anger and all kinds of emotions most likely. But he also can't stop the train. He has to ride it to the end. Along the way, they seem to feel like they don't want to let go (who would?) for reasons that are hard to explain. Along the way those that are on that train get hurt many times over. It is how it is unfortunately.

Does he remember it? It's in there somewhere. All of it. He may not be able to recall it right now, but it's in there.

To file or not to file? That's a personal choice on your part. There are no easy answers. But with time and patience, you will learn what is right for you. It may not be what you thought before this started and it may be. But it has to be your answer and your choice, because you'll live with it either way.

Whatever choice you make will be the right one. Don't worry about that. When you no longer second guess your choices, you've made up your mind, right?

Peace,
AJ

[Raine]

I was wondering that about bringing it up with rH's and T^2's spouses looking into it and doing their own research. Maybe my H will ask me at some point and I can give him suggestions.

It is so interesting to me that not filing and being okay with this limbo and cheating is such a common thread. It's perhaps the biggest indicator to me that this is not a typical marriage problem.

Today he told me that a girl he works with who went through a very quick D, and who likely cheated on her spouse has wanted him to confide in her as a friend so they can commiserate together. He hasn't and she's annoyed by it. But anyway, the interesting thing he said is she wants to find someone like her so she feels better about her situation. Then he said, "but I think I'm unique. I may not be, but i like to think that." It must look so very weird to outsiders. 7 months separated and people who know we are find it strange that we seem to get along so well.

I think I'm just prodding along until it no longer makes logical sense to remain married. Emotional sense happened long ago.

I get what you mean about the forgetting. I think it is there, buried with everything else. It would make things very interesting if he remember some specific things I told him at that time. Perhaps he does. Perhaps he knows the answers but doesn't want to confirm or ask. Like so many other things with him.

[AJM]

Or maybe he doesn't want to face them right now? That's also part of it. My ex started (like so many) with confusion and then ILYBINILWY speech. That then turned to hatred of God and eventually of me and then cheating, lying, and running away from home and the kids. That's a pretty common story, no?

Does she remember things I said? Yes. But did she "hear" them? Nope. Even now, she misinterprets emails and such. It's really odd. She doesn't get what she wants and hones in on words, but not the meaning nor the sentence.

I take from that they won't "hear" until they are ready to. If that ever comes, I hope I am nowhere near because that'll be an ugly day rivaling what I saw before. Not interested in going through that with her again.

It's funny that they think they are unique. And sad. It says a lot about our culture that so many feel alone and unique in this. I don't think they are. I think they are let down by society as a whole because in our culture we don't talk about such things to our kids and younger generations. Until they are too far gone to go through it. Sad.

Many do regret it later. Not all, but many do. I look at my aunt, who now 30 years later talks about the regret with my sister sometimes. She does regret it and it's sad. She and my uncle are at least able to talk now, and seem friendly when they do. My uncle's wife doesn't like it in the least.

In the end, it's just life. And the story is never over until it's over. We may be done with a chapter in our lives, but the story continues regardless. We need to accept that. We need to accept the here and now because it's all we're going to get for certain. Everything else is a definite maybe

Life is good. Let's not let it pass us by, regardless of how things went along the way.

Peace,
AJ

[Raine]

AJ, I hope you know how amazing you are. I so appreciate your insights on this. Pure, to the point honesty. Thank you for that!

That sounds so familiar with other friends of mine who are D now, the not hearing things, or reinterpreting them. I feel like my H is so much more logical than others. I think he does understand things, but he is more of the not going to listen, at least right now, and tunes things out to the point of forgetting. I know he has to write things down or he will forget to show up.

I wish I had known this was something that was possible. Wow, do I ever. I think I would have acted differently towards H at my first glimpses of something being wrong. I never, ever thought either of us would leave the other. I have never seen anything like my situation with H. Even those other friends of ours who are D, who likely had MLC signs, had some pretty big marital issues and constant fighting.

--

So here comes the grenade. Wait for it...

I think my H did dump all the OW and he is hooking up with random people now...make that a married couple? This is absolutely nuts. Is this really even possible? Yeah I shouldn't know this, not healthy, get a life. Yeah, yeah. But holy crap, what if I didn't know this? Well at least he isn't in a relationship, right? Is that my goal now? Just as long as he still "loves" me, not someone else. Oh my gosh he is so messed up! How is it even possible for someone to flip a switch (at least to the outside world) and become this messed up!? What a fun way to spend your anniversary right? At least someone got laid. :P

Now what? Detach, detach, detach from the guy who is reaching out to me about everything, like I'm his rock, the one keeping him alive? The man who I need to be a father. And if me being there for him or me dropping the rope, gives him any slight chance of not being stuck like this, I would do it, just so he is capable of being the father they deserve.

So, I don't feel angry or sad. I feel super confused and weirded out, and oddly enough relief that he didn't drop all the OW to commit to OW1.

Now who is the messed up one?

[Takevowsserious]

Wow Raine, all I have to say is... Wow.

Whenever I am feeling particularly hurt and/or bewildered by H's behaviors, I give myself a pep talk, and remind myself that he must be in an extraordinary amount of pain to be so self-destructive. No one in their right mind would do the things they do. It's sad, it really is.

And MLC anniversaries svck!

I don't think you're messed up at all - just weathering the storm any way you can

Hang in there, you are awesome girl!!!

[Raine]

T you are so right. There is the part of him doing all of this and the part of him judging himself for doing it.

After I founded out what was going on, I ignored him, and he really noticed. I sent him a text wondering how messed up he was after he would have been coming home from his adventure. He said 2.5/10. And I just stopped responding. That made me mad! I mean what did i expect right? Even if he was a 10, he would lie about it. He called, I ignored it. I was mad at the situation, the lying, sickening feelings. The feeling that I don't want to stand anymore but feeling I need to.

So he keeps calling the next day and on the third call I answer and I'm nice and friendly and cheerful. And we had a positive conversation where he had a hard time hanging up. I think it was a half hour long. Interesting convo points:

He comes out and says he gets worried when I don't talk to him. That he knows sometimes I need space, but he gets worried I'm mad at him. He says I may not believe this or appreciate it, but I am the only one he cares about what I think and what I think of him. (Wow right?) He said that yesterday he had moments of 8/10 of being messed up, and sometimes 0. Then he corrected himself and said no he is at least a 2.5 at all times. I talked to him about how well he can compartmentalizes it. That he functions really well at work. That he is the boss, in control, gets things done. I then said outside of work he is out of control and feels unable to take charge and take control. He was all over this in agreement. I talked to him about different personalities as different compartments of his life. Talked about him needing to take the work persona into his non-work life.
He talked about feelings of people judging him, but that I don't. He says he feels like people really don't, but he is judging himself.

After reading rH's thread I was thinking about my H current friend base. He too has developed friendships with the HS crowd. The difference is these are the geek crowd, the ones who are still playing video games and living at home and never married. These are people who never left HS. They're not in MLC, they never got married and never had to grow up. I wonder if H had never married, would he be one of them? Did he have to grow up and be responsible because he got married and had kids and he just faked it, until he hit the point he could no longer go on. His body and mind was not going to let him pretend anymore. He has to grow up or he has to be stuck. No more pretending.

[reachingHigher]

A lot of things to process. I can't believe you have the desire to hang on and still wait for him! He surely doesn't deserve you! He knows that but there is some replay he has to get out of his system. I'm sure glad my H didn't do the things your H is doing. Idk if I'd still be here.

But I'm so glad you are willing to wait. One day this will all be a bad memory. Even laughable he's so "out there"?

Are you feeling well? How are the boys?

[Raine]

rH I don't have that desire anymore, not really, not like before. I feel like me and H have a 5% chance at this point. The standing is for the old H, to get him through this. I feel like I promised him that when I married him. I care about him. I care about the boys. I feel like I can see him through this and still be okay to walk away. The tides have turned. I think he feels we have a better chance or desires it more than I do. But at the same time he has so much guilt he doesn't feel he deserves it/thinks i deserve more.

Starting over with someone else, a mature man, not some man-child who has done so much damage...sounds so appealing. But I'm not innocent and trusting anymore. I know that there is no perfect person anymore, not like how I felt when I feel in love with and married H. Now everyone has baggage. Now there are kids on both sides of any new relationship and x's and drama. Maybe I'm mourning the fact that no matter what happens, I will never have my version of perfect family again. All that has died and I'm in a whole new world--like I'm growing up again and everything is a mystery. Everything is the first time again.

Ever since H left, I have felt from him that he feels we are not married. I know he doesn't want to hurt me and part of the convo yesterday was that he always tries to be honest with me unless it's going to hurt me and then he won't say anything. The boy is trying.

So today at son's game, he tells me he needs to get me OW3 email so I can thank her for the baby gift. I know in his mind I have no clue, and he has forever broken off physical contact, and he thinks of her as a friend. So he probably feels this is fine. I of course inside am screaming annoyed. He goes on to say it was really nice and she gave more to the baby than anyone at work did. I said, yeah including you. He said whatever. Was it a witchy thing to say? For sure, but I don't care. It was very nice considering what I wanted to say.

Then on the way home he starts talking about fantasy's I had before, and I feel sick. It's joking right, but that kind of stuff is gone from my thinking--forever. It's no longer fantasy when you've been cheated on. It's no longer fantasy when the person you love has made it his reality. I told him I'm done with that. He said, done with sex? I just laughed and said I'm done with the thought of sex for recreation.

I'm feeling amazing! Sleep would be a gift, but I'm getting what I can. I'm liking where I'm getting physically, weight and health. I'm looking forward to being more and more active as weather improves. Everyone tells me they are amazed at how the boys are. So happy and so easy going and secure. I know they are getting that from me. Mom is okay and mom is happy, everything is fine. H and I don't fight period, and nothing is ever said in front of them. Of course they want daddy home, but it's not something they talk about and focus on.

[Takevowsserious]

Hi Raine ~

The paragraph you wrote that begins with, "Starting over with someone else, a mature man..." was like reading words that were already in my head. I have thought those exact same things.

When I married my H, I absolutely believed it was forever. I wasn't just fine with that, I was estastic about it.

And now, my idea of M and family has been blown to bits. Not only can't I imagine trusting H again, but any man.

Then again, if my H was to return, the real him, who knows how I would feel. He would have to be willing to move heaven and earth to get me back.

But remembering the man he was, I know he has it in him.

There's no easy road, that's for sure.

Glad you are feeling well, and that the boys are doing great.

Happy early Mother's Day, you sure as hell deserve it!

[Raine]

Quick update. H has been seeing OW1, not random/married people. I guess she is renting a room from a married couple. So H spent anniversary and Mother's Day with what looks like the OW he is going to commit to

Happy Mother's Day everyone!