As real as it is for US to be constantly seething with repressed anger and resentment that's just below the surface of our UPBEAT facades.....our Hs are seething with anger over their guilt as well. They manipulate thier guilt by doing THINGS and saying THINGS that appease us...while all the while, lying in wait...just beyond our sight is the defense/anger demon that they hold tightly by the collar lest they expose their fury and rage at having to feel guilty for what they've done. T2
I had a very powerful feeling while reading your post. What came to me was that everything WAS going well in your "post ASSumptions" talk with Wolfie...until you launched into YOUR LL's.
I think that perhaps it was just too much all at once for him...he'd just worked himself into a "mood" assuming YOU didn't want to hang with him, he just sucked up and admitted he'd been off base (not an easy thing for him to do?)....
And BLAM (to him, WE of course understand!!!...seize the opportunity!) now it's all about how YOU need to be loved...ergo how HE is STILL failing you.
I think that just got him all worked up and, although not all, but A LOT of what he said about his reasons for the changes he's been making is plain old anger based BULL SH!T!
Just my humble opinion, of course...but how do you think the day might have ended with you saying that NEXT TIME you'd share some of what you'd learned about your LL's?
Well......after some time to calm down and come here for feedback (thanks so much, you guys!)
T2: I think the answer truly lies somewhere in the middle. It is extremely confusing at times to deeply love a man AT THE SAME TIME as having powerful emotions of hurt and anger regarding his A (as well as his Pre-A and Post-A behaviour).
Sometimes there is such a cross wind of different powerful but conflicting emotions that it's enough to put me on overload and the cuicuit-breakers have to kick in.
I think that it is the same for most of these spouses. To love their mates dearly and want things to be "all fixed up" now, feeling guilty and AT THE SAME TIME feeling resentful, defensive, and wracked with guilt and shame.
If I were Wolfie, I would be wanting me to close the door on his A, never mention it again, and make lots of efforts to heal our relationship.
If Wolfie could "get it", he would understand that I desperately need his help to heal and feel whole again so that I can be part of an R that continues to improve and grow. Getting angry and impatient with me and wanting to shove it all under the rug will only prelong my pain.
I honestly believe that the R's that grow stronger and better after an A do so because both parties focus on healing each other, as well as the R as a whole. I'm not just being all like "kiss my ass until I feel better"--I am doing everything I know how to walk through this to a better place and want the best chance for my R to be stronger.
He doesn't get it, but he is trying in his own way, on his own terms, and I don't minimize or discount that.
Shiny: thanks for the wonderful observations. I think you could be right that he sort of went haywire due to an emotional overload that I didn't realize was going on.
I know it is hard for him to "suck it up" and admit that he is wrong. I was trying to help him save face by telling him that I would have liked to have spent much more time in the bookstore looking around, but was trying to be considerate by not making him wait around for me. I was trying to make it out like--"hey, aren't we silly getting off track with ASSumptions!"
I understand what you are saying about how he could interpret that he is "STILL FAILING ME". I know that he knows and understands what I need. Why do I keep banging my head against a wall? He acknowledges what I say, but then.....nothing. When I don't bring it up at all.....nothing. This all sounds very much like a cheeseless tunnel doesn't it? The only answer I can think of is to find a way to deny my emotional needs be satisfied with the way he does try, in his own way.
You said:
Quote: I think that just got him all worked up and, although not all, but A LOT of what he said about his reasons for the changes he's been making is plain old anger based BULL SH!T!
Would you please explain why you think that? Slowly, he seems to be going in that direction--little by little, and I see sabotage written all over it.
Quote: Yeah--the guilt bug. The thing is though--I'm asking for his help to heal us both...but I think he's trying to blame me for his guilt bug.
This whole episode is really all about his issues. Specifically .... his expectations and how he is coming up short of what he is expecting. I suspect that he felt guilt pains would go away after a few months. Not gonna happen! So now he is trying to determine the source of the continuing pain. Human nature prevailing, he is projecting the source of his pain on you. Only when you take yourself out of his equation will he then determine the source of his guilt is within him. Not until then will he face it and deal with it being with him for the rest of his life and he will need to find a way to come to terms with his guilt ... in short he will need to change his expectations and this is not going to happen in just a few months. Wolfie has a lot of recovery to do in the time ahead.
As he works thru this process, try not to take it personally, Tal. The pain from the guilt will at times overwelm him. All that yelling was nothing more than screams of pain coming to the surface and being vented. You are fortunate enough to have this bb to do your venting when thoses emotions surface, where does Wolfie have to go to vent? Chances are you are the exposed target when he needs to release. Not saying its a good thing, just trying help you understand so you can find it within yourself to react to it with compassion rather that taking it personally with anger and resentment.
Quote: I suspect that he felt guilt pains would go away after a few months. Not gonna happen! So now he is trying to determine the source of the continuing pain. Human nature prevailing, he is projecting the source of his pain on you.
I think, in some measure, this is exactly what I fear...That because my H doesn't see an 'end' or "finish date" for his guilt....he is/will continue to redirect his anger for what he feels at ME and our R. AND THAT is exactly what he did to set himself up to have his As.
When the blame for thier 'inner conflict and pain'continues to always circle back around to being caused by US (the LBS) how do we ever win?
Sorry to hog thread space here Tal, but KAW has really made me think. T2
Quote: If Wolfie could "get it", he would understand that I desperately need his help to heal and feel whole again so that I can be part of an R that continues to improve and grow. Getting angry and impatient with me and wanting to shove it all under the rug will only prelong my pain.
I honestly believe that the R's that grow stronger and better after an A do so because both parties focus on healing each other, as well as the R as a whole.
Let me turn this around in hopes I will express my slant as clear as possible. How do you think you can help Wolfie heal for the pain of his guilt? You can't! It comes from within him and only he can come to terms with it. Now how can he help you heal from the pain of betrayal? Same answer ... no matter what he attempts to do to help you, only you can come to terms with your pain.
So how does one "heal" from a pain that never will disappear (yes, it will dull and fade into the distance, but never will completely go away.)? Well, first all I think "heal" is a misnomer. If the pain never goes away, how can one heal from it? It like arthritis, it will never goes away so you can never heal from it, but you can learn to live with it as best as you can. I guess I can only speak for myself and the keyword that seems to work for me in order to come to terms with my pain is to work on building compassion so that is overshadows my pain. While CAW may directly benefit from my compassion, she also may choose to reject it ... either way it really doesn't matter to me ... I'm doing it soothe my inner-self so that one day I can have some inner-peace.
Quote: Sometimes there is such a cross wind of different powerful but conflicting emotions that it's enough to put me on overload and the cuicuit-breakers have to kick in.
This is what I was trying to touch on in my earlier post ... the same thing just happened to Wolfie. I think you can draw the parallel at this time that alot of emotions you are experiencing he is too. Acting "as-if" based on that conclusion could be very helpful in getting over the rough spots.
T2 - That's why its so critical to maintain the position of staying removed from their equation that equals to their pain and anger, just like when their slant was we were the source of all that was wrong with M in the first place.
By responding with compassion during those flare-ups also helps diffuse their projection of blame onto you. If you have a hard time trying to be compassionate to their behavior then give them plenty of space as an effective alternate until their release of pressure blows over.
I think that just got him all worked up and, although not all, but A LOT of what he said about his reasons for the changes he's been making is plain old anger based BULL SH!T!
Okay, what I meant here was thatI think that while for the most part Wolfie is making these changes, choices, the C etc FOR THE RIGHT REASONS...for himself, for the greater good, for your M there IS some resentment there. (good points by KAW on what those might be!)
He lashed out (I still think due to shere overload) and blurted out these anger based thoughts. You know...the ones we ALL have when we feel beat down... the ones we usually have the wherewithal NOT to blurt out.
OMG, Tal, if I think of what I could let loose with if I were to let go on CJ if I felt "pushed"!!!
Now here's where I need some clarification: What did you mean by this?
Quote: Slowly, he seems to be going in that direction--little by little, and I see sabotage written all over it.
