The Year of Seismic Activity

[Zoo]

Tal,

I hope you don't mind if I sorta include myself in this stage too. I realize I haven't been on the BB as long as many of you have but it is coming on the 1 year anniversary of my world falling apart too (I sludged along on my own for awhile) and I am experiencing a great deal of what the rest of you are talking about. I have been trying to keep it to my own thread because I didn't want to bring too many others down with me.

I have been wandering some if the anniverdary looming is triggering something in my subconscious. The more I read here and on Shiny and Sage's threads the more I'm beginning to believe that just may be what is happening. I am sub-consciously "cringing" in "anticipation" of what I experienced this time a year ago.

I have wondered as well where I am to find guidance through this stage. I have read DR until the spine is broken, the pages are well-thumbed and dirty and the cover is beginning to wrinkle. I pour over the web and still come up short. There has to be more to it then "just do what works". My big worry is that I will end up doing more harm then good.

don't recall anything that was specific to the stage that we are at! Can any of you? I know that much in those books dealt with the ideal, where the unfaithful partner is an ally--or even takes the LEAD--in healing the betrayed partner. I talks about that in Michele's books--how difficult is it for the one who caused the pain having to take the roll of the healer. Dr. Phil seems to point this direction too, with advice like: express that you are sorry every day for AS LONG AS IT IS NEEDED!

Hmmm...I don't even have this luxury. H has never apologised for his infidelity. He has never openly expressed any guilt concerning it either. I have often wondered if he is feeling guilt due to some of his actions or some things he has said but he has NEVER said "B I'm sorry I cheated on you, can you ever forgive me". I may have removed the necessity for that in his mind though since I forgave him sans an apology anyway. H did apologise for hurting me in regard to his treatment of me during the "bad time" so I try to take my consolation from that...that treatment hurt far more then the actual infidelity anyway.

Another scenario is what our MC was leading up to...have a ceremoney of sorts, then never speak of the infidelity again.

I like the idea of this but like you I am not one for denial either. I have told h I was not going to beat him over the head with his infidelity (and I haven't) but there was NO way I was going to treat it like some dirty little secret to be hidden away. In my mind that gives too much importance to it...it is easier for me to treat it as if it was NOTHING and hopefully H would see it as such too (does that make sense?)

We talk about things like:
Triggers of annaversaries
Post-tramatic type nightmares
Feeling the need to keep evidence of the affair
Feeling like we subjugate our emotions--protecting our spouses from our stuggles
Not believing that our partners are our allies in healing--feeling that we are alone--not feeling that we can ask for what we need
Dealing with the disparity of the person you thought you were married to--the person who betrayed you on the most intimate level in many ugly ways--and the person that we are now having a relationship with.

Have I left any major ones out?

I can think of one thing to add to this...FEAR. It is interwoven with all of those things you have mentioned. It is the fuel that spurs them all on. I can't speak for everyone but I get a sense of this from reading the threads...is the doubt not there for many of us; that despite all of the hard work, the seeming progress, the good that has come out of the sitch's; that all of this might have just been for nothing? We fear the POSSIBILITY of it all happening again?

I'm not talking about lack of trust or faith or anything of that nature. I want to know how to get past the fear of the POSSIBILITY. I realize there are no guarantees but as long as that POSSIBILITY looms in our minds will we not constantly be looking over our shoulders, anticipating triggers, micro-examining the details of conversations and actions? For me what I am experiencing now is very different from what I was experiencing when I was trying to get my M back. In some ways it is even more frightening... I don't think I have ever fought for something so hard before...I'm not just satisfied with having my M back, I want it BETTER and I don't know how to bring that about.

Maybe you should toss FRUSTRATION in there as well Tal??

hugz,
Zoo

[Jeannine]

Zoo's quote:

H has never apologised for his infidelity. He has never openly expressed any guilt concerning it either. I have often wondered if he is feeling guilt due to some of his actions or some things he has said but he has NEVER said "B I'm sorry I cheated on you, can you ever forgive me". I may have removed the necessity for that in his mind though since I forgave him sans an apology anyway. H did apologise for hurting me in regard to his treatment of me during the "bad time" so I try to take my consolation from that...that treatment hurt far more then the actual infidelity anyway.

My H sang John Lennon's "Jealous Guy" to me as a general expression of remorse. However, he has never specifically addressed the issue of his infidelity. So I am left to assume that his apologetic gesture encompassed this along with his effort to desert our M, his terrifying displays of suicidal behavior, his neglect, etc...
The point that you made about forgiving the spouse sans an apology, is something that I've thought about too.
I can only speak to the ladies on this issue because of the difference in gender dynamics - but it really does seem that because men tend to shy away from emotional discussions and are more action oriented, there is a strong desire for them to close the verbal door on the subject.
We make that possible for them because... we're DBing.
So, whenever they do manage a verbal show of remorse, it is truly a big deal for us - and for them.

I so wish to have open dialogue with my H wherein I can safely say or ask whatever I need to - to clear out the residue left behind from his betrayal fest.
I know that it would do wonders for my inner world.
If the past is an indication of the present, addressing certain issues might end up...counter-productive.
But in all honesty, (due in part to the encouragement I get here on the bb), I am beginning to speak up a little more.
I'm happy to report ... the sky isn't falling.

[Trying24now]

Zoo,

Yes, I agree...FEAR IS a component. You said:

is the doubt not there for many of us; that despite all of the hard work, the seeming progress, the good that has come out of the sitch's; that all of this might have just been for nothing?

Absolutely. That is a fear...BUT for some of us that fear IS NOT necessarily that IT will ever happen again...for some, at least for myself...my constant, looming, gut wrenching 'fear' is knowing myself well enough to know that I will NEVER really get past this.

There is to this day an all engulfing sense of sadness that comes over me at times. The sadness of knowing I'm no longer "special"...oh sure, I guess I can be made to feel 'special' again...but the FACT is,it just won't be the same now...you can't unring the bell.

I FEAR that as the days pass, and 'normalcy' returns to our daily routine...I find MYSELF less and less satisfied with what WE have. I'm beginning to ask myself, "Will all THIS pain, heartache and betrayal EVER be worth this patch quilt M we're trying to make of tattered cloth?" I fear, for me, it may not be.

This new phase that we find ourselves in IS a lot different then the trials and tribulations of the battle to get them home....because they're here now...BUT...is THIS stage we find ouselves asking...really, ultimately what's best for us?

At least that's my phase. This is where I am.
T2

[talitsa]

Yes Zoo--and others I have neglected to mention.
I'm trying to digest what JJ said, but he answered a ? with a ?

A lot of the frustration seems to be around feeling that we need to talk things through with our mates, in order to process things, and that just ain't happening for most of us.

I think a lot of us suppressed this stuff in order to get our M's stabilized but that came at a price. We don't want our mates to ever feel that we are pulling out the infidelity to beat them over the head with, but we want our M's to be stronger and better.

I think another common theme I can see is that, after being taken to hell and back, then DBing our butts off, a lot of us would like to hear some appreciation or validation from our mates for all of it.

I know that I am more fortunate than most, because I do occasionally get some short and cryptic statements from Wolfie. For instance, before he moved back home, I once asked him if he ever felt grateful or appreciative that I had fought for our R and hadn't given up on him. His answer was, "Yeah, sure!". A few weeks ago, this came up again. I asked him if he was still glad he'd come home & he said "yeah, I am. I TOLD you before that I feel very fortunate."

I am wondering how "yeah, sure" was a whole long explination that went over my head

I guess I'm wondering if it is too much to ask--or damaging in some way--to state what we really need in terms of discussing and processing, and ask if they can even meet us half way?

[RMC]

Um, well....speaking as one who has decided that staying and trying to work on this M anymore would only be a detriment to me, I can relate with NO fond memory how all those fears were a constant in my life.

I always knew what T2 said her fear is, was true for me. That I was NEVER going to be able to get past the betrayal.

Still.....I tried. All the anxiety and unspoken words I longed to say AND to hear that never came to past.

This DBing stuff is truly the hardest thing I've ever had the misfortune of having to TRY to do.

I say this because it is with great misfortune any one of us find ourselves in this position.

It just didn't work for me-my H never stopped lying. I figured 5 yrs of my life was long ewnough since I never got the indication he was any closer to coming home than he was when he left.

There is however, hope for many on here. Question is, how will we live the rest of our lives with this pain?

Some seem to be able to move past it. Some are trying to figure out HOW to move through it.

I personally am glad I'm not in this race anymore. I have a peace that I have not had in years.

I wish everyone on here peace within their marriages and a way to find happiness and wholeness again with their S.

Rachael

[Jeannine]

I know that a lot of emphasis is attached to the 'official' day.

However, it was just one day of many in our long journey through nightmare alley.

In most cases, it's THE day for us because it's a defining moment in our history, of when we were confronted with just how broken our relationship had become.

It is by no means the only anniversary that we must face though. That is to say, we don't just get through that day and then it's over and now we can close the book on it.
As much as we all want to get over it and move on, that book just isn't going to stay fully shut as long as there's more reading to be done.

For me (and others I'm sure) most everyday is an anniversary of something terribly uncomfortable due to the decay that precluded the 'official' day and the nightmare existance that followed it.
The bomb has a wide mile radius, does it not?

I believe that it will be tough going for some months to come, (at least for me) as we trudge through one anniversary after another.

My hope is that by the time autumn rolls around and the anniversaries begin to reflect the positives from the previous year, I will begin to find some measure of peace and have a more enjoyable chapter to thumb through.

[shinybear]

Yeah, Tal, I'm with you on this.

These are "Post-Piecing"? kinds of issues that we are all facing to some degree.

Interesting to me that the "fear" issue is so varied...for me the biggest fear is that what we have is just not going to meet our needs and our M will end.

I keep hearing myself tell our C at our first session (when CJ revealed for the first time that he did want to work on our M)...that I wanted our M to work out...but not at any cost...that I had needs, changes to our M for ME...

I'm afraid aside from NOT cheating or lying any more, I can't say there's a whole lot of tangible progress there.

Signing off...May tomorrow seem brighter!

Shiny

[talitsa]

These are ALL great things to talk about, and to try to find solutions for, that don't seem to be specifically addressed anywhere.

If we were to start looking at some of the "in depth" solutions to any of these topics, which ones do you think or feel would be the most important to tackle first? Or, might there be any that taking care of one thing might help to solve the other?

Well JJ, in looking at my little list (incomplete though it probably is) the general areas seem to be Post-tramatic symptoms, residual fear over trusting again, and a lot of grieving and pain that has been surpressed during the initial DBing process.

So far, I haven't heard of any realistic treatment for PTSD (aside from EMDS--which didn't work for me--as much as I wanted it too; and some technique that our current MC suggested that involved tapping certain areas of the body repeatedly). Have you heard of anything that actually WORKS to lessen the symptoms of PTSD?

The fear of vulnerability--fear of being hurt again part: well I suppose in the best case scenario, our mates will be consistant and reasurring for as long as it takes for the fear to lessen. Many of us are having difficulty expressing the importance of that to our mates, much less asking for our needs to be addressed.

I suppose that a very common theme here is that we DBed our butts off, but repressed most of our own needs and emotions in order to get our M's back on track and stabilized. Now that the crisis part is over, having had all those very strong and powerful emotions repressed and unattended to can lead to problems, much less resentment of our mates for not understanding. Despite being wounded to the core, many of us were acting as emotional care-takers of our whacked out aliens in order to save our R's.

I think you're right, many of the issues that seem to be so common at this stage don't seem to be addressed anywhere. It's not like we can go pick up a book that addresses this stage and the obviously common problems that go with it.

Ok, I'm game...where do you want to start?

[talitsa]

Well, I don't know who blew it--probably both of us--but yesterday was NOT good.

We went to town--did a lot of window-shopping & looking around. Wolfie had specific errands to get done so we did those--but he's one of those odd-ball guys that loves shopping. I thought it was nice, but all of the sudden he grumps out and says "Let's go". He barely speaks all the way home, while I sit and wonder what got up his hiney!

We get home and I asked him several times what he was upset about. He said that his idea of having a romantic time was just dinking around, spending the day window shopping, going to bookstores, etc., but he said it seemed like I wasn't very excited about it so he felt like he was just "dragging me around".

I explained that I was fine, having a good time and I had no idea what he was talking about "dragging me around"! He decided that he had really misread me and made some assumptions and got in a huff that I didn't like to spend time hanging out with him. All of this came out of left-field to me, but he ended up deciding that he'd been acting silly.

I told him that I like hearing how important companionship was to him (basically telling me about one of his love-languages). I told him the basic theory behind love languages, and how one can be speaking in their own love language, but the other person doesn't get it, because their love language isn't being spoken.

He seemed engaged in this conversation and interested in the love-language thing....so I went on to explain about MY LL's. I told him that I knew that verbal expressions of affection and communicating on an emotionally intimate level was hard for him. I said that it was a big part of my LL, and in fact was as strong of a need as sex, in fact it is very intertwined!

He started yelling at me! He was yelling, "what the hell do you want from me? I go through all of this stuff to get you back, I tell you where I'm at all of the time! How long do I have to go through this feeling guilty--I'm sick of it! Why can't you just go on from here and get over the past?"


WTF!!!!! Ok--I have no idea where this came from. I hadn't said a single thing about the "past" (euphemism for the A). I THOUGHT we were having a discussion about our emotional needs and love languages. I thought it was cool that we were doing that! I was shocked--for the second time--about his bizare reactions!

I said..."I was in no way bringing up the "past". I was talking to you about ways we can express our needs and meet each other's needs better--work on relationship in positive ways.

He just sat there glaring at me. At this point, I am starting to get very irritated at his behavior. What he had just been yelling about started to sink in.

I asked him if all of this "work" he had been doing for the relationship and the things he had been doing to "make amends, repair relationships, regain trust" was really all about him not wanting to feel guilt because it IS UNCOMFORTABLE? He said "yes". I

I asked him if all of the things he had been doing to be "sweet" to me, going to counseling, etc. was about some penance he was doing instead of being heartfelt--and that he felt like he has said the appropriate amount of "Hail Marys" now.
He said "Well YEAH. How much more should I have to be put through?".

UGGGHHHH! At this point, I am wondering what the f**k I am doing in a relationship with a man that is THAT immature, insensitive, and self-centered!

He tried to snuggle up to me later--wanting to ML. For the first time in almost ten years, I said I really didn't feel like it.

Does anyone have any insight into this crap? Just teething?

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hey Tal,

Geez...I think both of us got smacked with the same sort of situation.

Sending you hugs.

As for what your previous post said about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, repressing our emotions and now what? I can relate to that.

Perhaps that's where my sadness yesterday and today are really coming from. Repressed sadness finally leaking out.

Dunno.

Sending you gentle hugs though.

Hugs.