Confused about what I want

[nero]

hi brnr-

I just got reading your thread and can feel the pain wash over me allover again. I hear in you- all the things i've said and felt and keep feeling on and on (tho, happily, to a lesser degree - here almost 2 yrs after full disclosure).

Like you- 37 years together seems to have evaporated into something that either never happened or was a mistake. like someone else who wrote to you- once my h ws "outed" he became more pleasant - but still has ow stashed there in his "other" life. i hate it like mad- like you i'm a happy ole guy who had faith and was (maybe) too trusting & loving (and deluded, insane, etc.)

what i'm writing to say is - you'll make it thru somehow. i'm not "there" yet- but i feel a bit more accepting of this awful and unjust path my life has taken. sometimes i feel like you just said- sorry you ever met him. i used to think meeting him was the best day of my life. oh man- how they can jack us and our lives around - totally upside down.

your h and my h are a huge part of our lives- it's hard to just turn that off with a switch. your h sounds like mine- was completely awful- turns out mine was cheating- lying and (i guess) feeling like such a rat he has mademe "the enemy" and responsible for everything wrong in his life. mine is currently becoming (i guess what he sees as his only alternative life rite now) the guy he was at 18 or 21 or so. tennis bum, cheating jacka$$.

i'd like to say i hate him or was totally indifferent- i am not.

it hurts all the time- im hoping i'll know when the time is right to walk out of this life- out of his life. (i do need to have a job & means of support 1st)

i've been dbing for 2 years- have made it thru the fog of pain segment of the show- it took a long long time- maybe at least a year and a half? it's not pretty- you have kids and you love them and you can use that to keep you strong.

I don't pretend to know how this will turn out. my h said initially he doesn't love me and never will, we have no future, i thought i would honestly croak. really - like pain and grief could actually snuff out your life. glad to report it didn't. today he still is keeping himself in my life in a limited way. i resent it and him and it all.

HOWEVER - THERE are alot of us out here- we all want to lend our story and our support and say to you, you and me and most of us all will emerge someday from the other end of this awful part of our lives. so good luck- hang on- talk to your friends - find the ones that try and understand and not judge or talk you into or out of this or that.

talk to an attorney and then talk to another one. find a few that give free consultation- pick someone you like and trust and that hopefully has experience in this sort of law. that will make a huge difference (like dr being an expert in one field) (i ws legal secretary for 25 years - my h is an attorney) they're just people - some good some bad. find your local "mad dog" divorce guy with a reputation for ripping opposition to shreds. at least you will get full info on your rights - position, etc. you don't have to be rotten- but it's nice to know your guy is at the top of his game.

just a thought. good luck- none of us know how in the world it will all turn out- your h may simmer down once he feels in control a bit- who really could know how it will turn out for any of us - and when - and if, etc. it's such a crap shoot-

take care of you. i've develop3ed a hell of alot of patience and the ability to just keep mum when i'm about to either shout- yell, fight, whatever. that's good for me anyway- so one tiny bit of positive. it's hard to find sometimes.

try and list the good things in your life- health, sanity, kids, etc. and try to notlet yourself get dragged down too far with your ego. odds are it really is all about him - and not you at all.

best of luck.

xxo

[AJM]

Hey BRNR. I feel ya. It's not what you wanted. But it's not something he just one day woke up and did. He's been planning it. He may be ahead of you in the idea of separation, but as was pointed out, it's not what they think it is. I can tell you that even years later, my ex is struggling to be genuinely happy. I don't even talk to her or return her calls/texts/emails unless completely necessary. I've heard more from her since she remarried (9 months post D) than prior to that for the last four years. She points out often how happy she is now that she isn't with me. But it's more like she is surprised that she can be happy. Sad is what it is to me. I hate to see anyone in that situation.

The difficult part is to realize you can't stop them. You can't point it out and have them look at you and say, "you're right! Thank God you pointed that out, I'm so sorry I hurt you". They can't. They just can't at this point. They need to figure it out on their own. Some do and some don't. Some who do, never tell you; they're too ashamed and prideful. It's too much for them to process and face.

But if you realize they are human, and therefore prone to doing stupid human things, then you begin to see that they are not perfect and they are not really trying to hurt you (in the long run; for now they are). They are trying to grow up and make sense of their own life. It's imperative to them that they do. Dunno why. When they realize they are angry at themselves and those that truly hurt them, then they begin to regain their life. It's no picnic from what I've seen. They truly lose a lot more than anyone else to get there.

Don't be surprised as your emotions see-saw all over the place. It's not what you expected nor what you asked for or even saw coming. They hide it very well. As long as he continues to need to blame you for (whatever he can think of) he is not done. You really don't want that kind of relationship, right? You want a healthy relationship and he can't do that right now. The OW? Believe me, you'll find out much later down the road how absurd and ridiculous and whatever else she is, is. She is no prize though, that's for sure. Almost like a MLCr tries to punish themselves. It's weird, but I've seen it many times here on the boards and in life.

But whatever you do, don't be afraid BRNR. When the dark thoughts come, or the good times are there, don't be afraid to face them both. Don't be afraid of your actions. Don't be afraid of your emotions toward him. You'll work all of that out when the time is right, but fear will only make it take the dark times take longer to dissipate. In short order, the good times will outweigh the dark times. You weren't made to pine away or be sad or angry forever. You were made to be happy and to dream and to find joy in life. Once this unpleasant time in your life is behind you, you will. And it'll be better than you imagine. If he goes through his crazy times and comes out whole then life is good.

Don't fear, BRNR. That's one thing you do not need during this time. You have plenty of other things to deal with.

Peace,
AJ

[BRNR]

Thanks for all the support from everyone who posted on this thread. I really appreciated what everyone had to say and offer.

I did meet with a second attorney today, and he gave me the same advice that this first attorney did. Agree with H on the financial terms or force H to file the divorce himself and get things done. He said NOT to file for support until H is contributing ZERO to the marital debts because should the divorce occur, I will be stuck with this award which will most often than not be less than what I would be awarded in the divorce.

He also advised that both H and I should seek marital counseling (which the first attorney said as well). This I know is a no-no in dealing with an MLC'er, so discarding that advice for now.

He said as far as custody of the child, no judge will grant that for various reasons and I should simply say no on that or again force him to legally obtain the child through the divorce, which he still will probably not get.

Attorney also said maybe to throw in the email that I have consulted an attorney(s) and make claims that he will need to file the divorce for his demands to be met.

So, I am still not filing for divorce. At this point, I am not sure if I should agree to the financial demands or push/persuade H to file.

urghh!!! So aggravating...but I guess I gotta put my big girl panties on and make a decision. I am going to take a few more days to decide...

As always, any opinion on the matter is always welcomed...

[BRNR]

So my response to H - this is what I am thinking....

H,

I have your reviewed your financial analysis of our marital debt and have consulted with attorney(s) on my rights. I will not agree to these terms and our original agreement will need to remain in force. Should you disagree with this, please consult an attorney and proceed with the divorce as to formally legalize the responsibilites regarding the debts incurred.

BRNR

[BRNR]

Oh, I forgot the part on the kids...

Also, I disagree with the decision of S9 living with you as I do not feel it is healthy for the boys to be split up. Again, should you feel your rights are being violated, please consult an attorney and the matter can be resolved through the courts.

[BRNR]

Oh my gosh! What a day. Breaking developments....

H brought OW to soccer practice! I felt nothing honestly, and now that I have seen OW and her thong hanging out the back of her pants, I really do feel sorry for him. All I can say is sex better be good, cause OW ain't got nothing on me. She was such trash, and totally the opposite of me, even when I was her age....

Tell you the truth, I feel better now that he has outed her per se. Not sure how he introduced her to my son, but S14 didn't even mention it, and I am not going to either. H will have to deal with that problem when it comes.

So, it gave me even more strength to send the email...which was pretty much how I stated in my prior post. If OW is putting pressure on him to divorce, I am sure he probably won't even show her as I essentially told him to go get it.

So, going to bed, almost feel a sense of relief. thank you everyone for giving me the strength courage and guidance to do what I had to do today.

Also-as a side note- H called twice and texted me twice today, and I ignored them all. I am sure OW was a revenge of sorts. Maybe not, but I am taking it as such, because I have learned to ignore everything he says and does these days. I think it is getting to him that he is not getting a rise out of me.

[AJM]

She's a revenge? Or a self-punishment? Hard to say really. At least at this point. Makes it kind of like watching a train-wreck, right? I know for me, watching my ex do what she did and marry her "dad" (he's much much older) was really kind of funny in a way. Watching her try to get several different men, only to be turned down and "settle" on this one was like watching a train-wreck in slow motion. The op is almost never better than what they left. It's odd how that part of the script stays the same even when the faces and names change. Nope, this is all about him and his issues. It's why we always say you didn't break him and you can't fix him. He has to learn for himself.

As for the emails and advice? I suggest in the future you refrain from suggesting that he seek counsel if he disagrees. He needs to figure that out. It's obvious. But if it comes from you, it's seen as manipulation, oddly enough. State your position and leave the "if you feel you disagree seek counsel.." parts out. You'll be glad you didn't give him advice later.

You have let him feel the full force of his choices. He seems to need that for whatever reason we can only guess.

Have a great night, BRNR!!

AJ

[BRNR]

Thanks for the comment AJ. Yes it was quite funny seeing things from that perspective.

As far as the advice comment, I do see your point of view, but I also see it from the stance that I mean business now. He can take it whichever way he wants, because I have told him to "do what he had to do" before, and then he sends me an email trying to bully me with a take it or leave it attitude.

I also think you were the one that said, no matter what I do or don't, he will be angry, so let him be....at least at this time I truly can see that he is really only hurting himself and looking out for himself in all this.

AJ- it took a lot of digging to stop fearing everything I say and do, wondering if it would hurt or help, and I don't regret one word of the email.

What will be, will be. And honestly I am okay with that, because I am at least doing everything I can to get what I want. If I don't get it, at least I can say I tried.

But as with all of us, nothing is over yet, and I will try to heed your advice in the future. We can't be perfect DB'ers all the time, right?

You have a great night too!

[BRNR]

I just want to give credit to all the parents with an MLC'er. Parenting is a tough job as it is, and it is especially difficult during this situation.

I had a hopefully enlightening conversation with H this AM about the kids....well hopefully. He still thinks that parenting our two boys has become my sole problem as every time a teacher or someone calls regarding the boys he comes running to me to fix it. Apparently that was what his two phone calls and two text messages were about yesterday. Funny how I don't hear from him at all unless it is about them.

I am no longer handling my MLC'er with kid gloves. I don't care what that does to affect the possibility of reuniting the marriage. He has gone too far where the boys are considered...consider this my boundary.

I essential said to him this morning in a firm tone that his son is struggling mentally and emotionally with the situation. He looked astonished to say the least and said "and how was I supposed to know?" In my mind I was thinking...really dude?!?! I didn't answer the question.

WTF! He is really delusional...if he thinks the kids are fine, he really needs to wake up and see

I was challenged more on my part in parenting and what I don't do. I had to throw that one back at him. He was quiet. I followed up and said that I would not be questioned or insulted on what I do or don't do with the boys as I am a very good parent, and handle the situations that come up when they come up.

I ended the conversation after that. I am really tired of his childish antics with the kids. If he wants his kids to excel and be the kids they were before this, he is going to either need to shut up and step out of the way or start taking an active role.

I finally found a therapist/counselor for myself and am going to see when I go in a couple of weeks if he accepts the kids insurance and get my kids to go at least once.

H has way too much control, and I would soon rather go into debt than have all of us emotionally crumble at his feet.

Again, this is me taking fear out of the everything. I will not any longer live my life that way, which is what I have been doing...I see this now.

It really is time for me to move on. I am getting to the point that I don't want my marriage. I just really want him gone out of the picture...for good.

Maybe this is what Divorce Busting is, maybe not. But I am done. My kids deserve a respectable father in their life and I deserve a respectable husband. Since he can't be either, he just needs to move on.

[golf mom]

You're right - it is delusional thinking. My H will not acknowledge how his actions have affected the boys. Early on I told him they were struggling. He accused me of playing emotional games with him. After that I haven't said anything. He's never seen them cry. They save all of their tears for me. The few times they tried to tell him how they felt he started spewing about it being all my fault. It's been almost a year and a half and he's only seen the boys a few times. Each time they came home hurt by his bragging of how great his life is. There is no relationship between them now. He really thought that he could just walk away, without warning, create a whole new life while continuing to threaten our stability and the boys would be fine.

I'm glad your H still sees your boys and did seem to hear you about how they are struggling.