7 months since BD and not sure where to go next

[Accuray]

I'm not an expert, and I'm hesitant to experiment with your life, so please critically evaluate this suggestion and do what you want with it.

When you are constantly rejected, you feel out of control. It's very, very painful to expect to have sex and then not get it, and even worse to wonder if you will ever get it again, it's like a form of torture. When your husband abstains with you, he regains some form of control over his life. He's no longer giving you the power to fail to meet his expectations, and as odd as that sounds, that power can feel good! Once you're there, going back to having sex can be a very tall wall to get over because of all it implies in terms of loss of control. It takes an incredible act of will to get where he is, and it's threatening to have to get there again. It's like an addict who has been sober for 360 days -- sure it would be fun to go on a bender, but then you are back to your compulsion and have to start over again with the twelve step program meetings, and the sponsor, and start the count all over again, so taking a pass doesn't mean you wouldn't like to go out partying, it just means that everything that goes with it makes it a non-starter for you, or that the return of desire is more than you think you can handle.

I can't comment on if he's having an affair or not, other than to say that volunteering to come on a family vacation with you would be very odd behavior for someone engaged in an affair. I think my explanation above is equally likely.

I also don't know how your "fighting about the past" tends to go. I was listening to a radio therapist the other night and the caller was a woman who had a Facebook relationship with a man while her husband was deployed in the military. She never told him she loved him, and in her view never did anything that was even inappropriate, but it bothered the hell out of her H when he found out, and he moved out as a result.

The therapist said that when your spouse is angry about something you did, you can do one of two things: (1) you can justify it, or (2) you can own it and make amends.

If you go the justify it route "I did that because you did Z", that tends to leave you stuck.

If you go the "own it and make amends" route, you have to do it from the perspective of not expecting anything back. i.e. if you own your part, you don't then expect him to own his part. It has to be a 100% selfless act on your part, full stop.

Therefore, when you talk about the past, you would say something like, "I recognize that withholding sex and intimacy from you was wrong. Regardless of how I was feeling, that was a cruel thing to do and I'm very very sorry that I did it, and for how it made you feel. I understand how wrong it was now, and I want you to know that I apologize for what I've done."

If you haven't "owned it" and made amends, I recommend doing it the next time you get into a discussion about the past, because it will probably end the argument, and stop his complaining when he believes that you truly do own it. You've got to mean it though, and that can be hard if you're angry about several things yourself. You have to separate them, own your part, and leave his injustices to him to deal with.

I do think it would be of huge benefit to you to start having sex again, but you would have to do it devoid of conditions or expectations. Which is to say that you can't go into it with a "because I'm giving you sex, you now owe me X, or I will now expect Y", because I'm sure he's very worried about whatever that ask will be.

Here's what I recommend, "Hey H, I would love it if you would have sex with me with no strings attached. We can keep it light and playful, I think it will be good for both of us. I understand you're worried that it won't feel right, but we really won't know unless we try. Let's leave the baggage at the door, go to a hotel for a night and just focus on having a good time with nothing move involved. The offer I'll make is that after that, we can do it any time you want to, assuming the kids are provided for -- I will not reject you ever. Rather than answer me now, I'd like you to think about it for 24 hours, and let me know if you're interested."

Then, if he takes you up on it, you have to go into it with the best possible attitude and low expectations.

I believe that if you were in a position to flirt with him and seduce him, you could eventually get him to take you up on that offer, and if you start having sex again, it would help both of you on all other fronts.

As MWD suggests in her SSM book, the best path out of a SSM is to tell the HD partner they can have sex whenever they want, take the possibility of rejection completely off the table. You may fear that you'll be having sex 24x7 but it doesn't work that way. You'll probably get an initial period of high frequency but then it will taper off into something manageable. I can tell you, however, that if you re-introduce rejection it will cause a ton of problems, so you have to be sure you're fully on board with being that giving.

Acc

[AM2012]

Thank you. I will definitely try your suggestion. If he says no to me that doing it will be too weird or awkward, what do I do next?
I am not trying to be cynical here but the changes if him saying no are much greater than him saying yes. I think he's terrified. Yes it will be werid since its been long.

Also won't this put a lot of pressure on him to " perform". Remember its been 6 years.

I was debating about having us see a sex therapist if we get to that point.
Have you spoken to anyone else on this site who had gone this long without it?

Yes I have owned up to me rejecting him. I have apologizes several times and did truly mean it, however he does always say I can't imagine what this did to him. He said it made him feel like he was dirty and gross everytime I rejected him. He said he felt worthless.

[Accuray]

Thank you. I will definitely try your suggestion. If he says no to me that doing it will be too weird or awkward, what do I do next?

You've got to sell the "no strings attached" side of this, and I would also be prepared to make the offer more than once. If he says no, try again in a couple weeks. Don't just leave it as an open offer that he can "get back to you", I would proactively offer it every couple weeks. Until you get over that wall I think everything else is going to stay in limbo. When you were dating, what did you do to encourage men to have sex with you? See if you can draw upon that. I'm sure there was some flirtation involved, and maybe some flattery?

Also won't this put a lot of pressure on him to "perform". Remember its been 6 years.

There is only pressure to perform if you're expecting a performance. What can you do to relieve that pressure? Tell him it will be all about him? This whole situation is going to put pressure on both of you, but it already is right? You're both getting all of the angst and none of the love.

I was debating about having us see a sex therapist if we get to that point.

I wouldn't do that -- that WILL put pressure on him. Let's start having sex first and worry about making it better much later.

Have you spoken to anyone else on this site who had gone this long without it?

Yes, there are three people who come to mind who have gone 10+ years in completely sexless marriages, but I don't know why that matters. The only thing that matters is how long will you accept? If you told me you wouldn't accept 3 sexless months that would be fine, it's all about you and your marriage, not what someone else can tolerate.

Yes I have owned up to me rejecting him. I have apologizes several times and did truly mean it, however he does always say I can't imagine what this did to him. He said it made him feel like he was dirty and gross everytime I rejected him. He said he felt worthless.

Do you just keep validating and let him vent? Have you asked what you can do to make that up to him?

You said that when you start talking about the past it turns into an argument. What is the argument? What is he arguing, and what are you arguing?

I really, really don't think his fear is about the ability to perform at all. I think the fear is about having sex and enjoying it, and wanting more, and being vulnerable to being rejected again. That's what he's trying to avoid, is the possibility of future rejection.

Try taking that possibility off the table and see if that helps. Look him in the eye and say "I will not reject you, you can have sex whenever you want".

Good luck!

[Accuray]

If this doesn't work, we can try taking it up a notch -- I have some other ideas. Let me know how it goes.

[AM2012]

Ok so I finally had the guts to ask him tonight. It went better than expected. He said he was glad we are talking about it and said he liked the idea. He looked nervous. He asked when? I said this weekend, next weekend? When you want to. He said well definitely not this weekend it's just to soon. He said we can talk about it more this weekend. I really hope this works out and he doesn't back out.

[Accuray]

Good for you! Unfortunately I think the harder part will begin once he takes you up on your offer, because if your needs aren't being met or there are other issues you are having, there will be times he wants sex and you just don't feel like it. That will be a challenge, but you have to have a "pay it forward" mentality and understand that this is a transition period where you are investing in the relationship now for a payback that will come later.

At some point when the SSM issue is no longer an elephant in the room, you're going to have to have the conversation about getting what you need from this relationship too, but for now that has to wait.

Read MWD's "The Sex Starved Marriage" book if you have not, it will help you.

Acc