I know I have been supposed to be leaning out, but she has been talking... I know, I know better. Ugh, I'm an idiot at times.
Oh Chris, you keep saying you know better, but.......... Gotta watch out for those buts, ya know?
Originally Posted By: ChrisN
feels confused at times about her life, what she wants, missing us and our life, etc, but she can not comit to anything. area we both can make a decision on the future"
She keeps telling you...you arent hearing her. She is confused about her life. She cannot committ to anything at this time.
Originally Posted By: ChrisN
Perhaps I expect too much from her? We are in two different places, and I also can't deal with the emotional roller coaster of all this blame from her. However, I know that she deserves to have her say about how she felt and feels. And if there is ANY chance for us in the future, that this is the first step on that road. "
Ya think? And I agree with your brother. This is as much as she can give right now. You have to decide if you can accept that.
And then you need to decide if you are willing to allow her to figure this all out.
I know, I really am a very intelligent person and can logically understand all the mistakes I'm making here. The issue i fight is my heart and emotions take over.
Should I even be talking to her at this point? Should I even be going to counseling with her? Or shoudl tell her no, and see if she has time to figure herself out some more? But, then I run the risk that she may say, I don't want to go with you now.
I know this can feel like harpooning a whale and getting dragged all over the ocean in your lifeboat, but you don't have to accept that. You can slow everything down if you want to. You have a lot of hurt to process, and no matter what happens, your W will not help you process that because she thinks her own hurt load is even larger than yours.
Did you read the Dobson quote I posted to cbtdad? Confidence is of utmost importance right now. You need to keep your cards close to the vest, and stop "demonstrating hurt".
I know it feels like you're drowning, so if your W offers you a little bit of rope you better grab it and hold on with everything you're worth, but that is taking the short-term view, and this is a marathon right?
Evaluate your own ability to discipline yourself against your emotions. If you're not there yet, then tell W you think her plan is great, but you'd like to have that initial conversation in two weeks, and start with a therapist in four weeks.
It is not realistic to think that she'll talk to you tonight but if you refuse she never will again. If there are things she wants to say to you, she will wait.
If you feel you've got the self-control now to STFU, then listen to what she has to say, but know that you're not going to like it. There will probably be some absolutes she gives you that will be hard to accept. Can you remove your emotions from hearing that stuff and just let it in? Can you accept that "this is how she feels" versus "this is her insisting on a reality you don't agree with"?
Therapy can be good or bad. It depends on the therapist and your approach to the sessions. The thing that stinks is it's virtually impossible to know how good your therapist is, because they don't post "win/loss" records. Several claim to be marriage-friendly, but in fact their training tells them to help you move on. The most damaging thing it can do is to encourage you to continue to talk about you, how you feel, and what you want, which will further alienate W.
No marriage is perfect, usually in a WAW situation, neither party was satisfied. You probably were not getting your needs met, but you were happy *enough*. The WAW is just the one who pulls the fire alarm first, but usually both people smelled smoke.
The point is, that if you do get together after all this pain, it better be in a scenario where W is willing to do some work to, to deliver a better marriage for you also. If you're doing all the pulling and all the convincing, what motivation will she have to do that?
Lean out, give her some space. If she does not ever come back, YOU WILL STILL BE OKAY. The closer you get to accepting that, the more attractive you will be to her.
She told you directly, you want it so badly right now it's too much pressure on her. You relieve the pressure by wanting it less.
Time will help with that. Give yourself the time you need.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Hey Chris, sorry if I was a little harsh. Just hate to see you keep shooting yourself in the foot, ya know? I can see you are a very intelligent guy but emotions get the best of us.
I agree completely with Acc.
The therapist thing is a tough call. It is imperative to get the right one.
I am not sure what can be gained from it at this point.
I dont think your w is going to tell you anything you didnt already know about how she feels.
She's already said it before, you heard it, right?
Hopefully you took from that what you agreed was true and are working towards changing those things about yourself.
Really, Chris, I think the very best thing for you to do right now is lovingly let her go.
She really needs to figure this out on her own. Because you dont want her coming back out of guilt or pressure. That just brings more trouble down the road.
If you decide to have this ralk tonight, be mindful to just listen. Stay calm, positive, confident.
And if you dont, that is ok, too.
Become the man you want to be, C. So that if she looks towards you in the future and you are open to it, she will see a man who has grown with strength and courage.
Hi Chris. I've got agree with Accuracy ^^^ (how could you not? Lol)
The issue of MC is a bit dicey, I can tell you that from experience, alas. We went to see a therapist a few times over the years and she focussed a lot on our childhhod issues and why we developed the patterns that led to our issues. But what I sensed at the time, and what I see clearly now, is that she didn't offer us concrete tools to employ when problems arose. "You're having communication problems? Try communicating more!" Uh, how exactly?
Then, once W dropped the bomb, we went to that same "MC", and after seeing us together and then separately, at the very next joint session, she had W look me in the eyes and tell me she wanted a D and to tell me the reasons why. It's exactly the way Accuracy warned about: she wanted to focus on helping us to move on.
That's why, as with everything with DB, you have to be ready to hear W say something you don't want to hear. Somebody just told me yesterday about how he and his partner were on the brink of breaking up (OW, typical) but they saw a husband and wife therapists who said, we're not going to focus on what got you here, we're going to help you move forward together. I just wish we had heard about an approach like that earlier. But if the WAW isn't ready or willing to make that commitment then it would probably push her further away.
Also, when you experience these "emotional ambushes" where you get the urge to talk with W or try to change her mind, try to find something else to focus your energy on to distract yourself. That's much more productive and it will help you retain your equilibrium.
M41 W42 M 12 T 15 S10, D9, twin Ds 3 1/2 BD 1/2/2013 Living as roommates Working on D agreement w. mediator 5/13
Because you dont want her coming back out of guilt or pressure. That just brings more trouble down the road.
Exactly! That's where I messed up my own sitch and it's no fun -- protracted limbo. The biggest mistake I made was not giving her more space than she wanted. Don't repeat my mistake!
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I've been doing a lot of thinking (an understatement for all of us here) I think I am going to tell my W that I am not up to talking with her tonight...that I've had a long week and am tired - which is true. That I do want to talk with her and will go to a therapist... But leave the conversation at that. Then I need to NOT bring US up or talk about anything except our daughter, and any life thing that we need to... Nothing about marriage or reconciling.
She has noticed how much weight I've lost, and mentioned repeatedly how nice I look, that I'm wearing new clothes, and I look fantastic, and I do feel better that way! Which is one of my goals....and I need to build on that for me, and as ACC says, lean out, and see if she leans in.
I'm really torn on the MC... Cause, I worry it's too early, yet, feel if we got the right counselor that it might open her eyes to things... But I worry, she'll just not agree with what they are saying and want to stop or tune it out. I think we need more time...
Yep, my MC said that 90% of the time the therapy is useless because only one party is coming to work. He said usually the reluctant partner is there to:
a) Help the LBS find peace with and accept their decision to leave
b) Help the LBS recognize and fix all the issues that the LBS has
c) Tick the box to say that they "tried" MC before they walked away
He said that it's only effective if both parties fundamentally want the marriage to work, but lack the tools to get past their blocking issues. He said that unfortunately, most people come to MC two years too late, by which time the resentments have gotten too great and one person has checked out.
The other place I think it can be helpful is if you both accept it's over, but want to be the most effective co-parents you can be. In that case, once again, you have a shared goal so the sessions can actually help you.
Chris, I would wait on MC until your W tells you that she wants the marriage to work. Before that, she's better off with IC and you're better off with a DB coach.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Talked to her via text and explained that I wanted her to talk to me, that I would listen, and I would go to a therapist with her too (didn't put a timeframe on that) she responded that she though maybe we could talk Thursday night. I'm going to try and not talk about us with her the whole week, lean out, and mentally prepare for the conversation n Thursday...
