Here is one issue that I am realizing I definitely have. I don't think I know how to validate without reciting it from a script. I don't think that makes me a bad person. I honestly don't feel that I am. It does however make me a bad communicator, especially where wife is concerned. Take this for example:
W:I guess we both wish we could have changed each other. I wanted you to treat me like you loved and cared for me while we were together and you want me to try now that we are apart. Maybe we just we not meant to be.
W:I know you dont accept my choice but for once in our marriage please respect my wishes to move on. I am sorry (husband) but that is what I want. I havent waivered on that at all.
How would I respond to that, validate her feelings and make her feel that I am truly supportive?
First let me say what validation is NOT: fixing, reasoning, explaining, agreeing, disagreeing, justifying, pleading. Validation is simply seeking to understand what another is feeling and letting them know that you value their feelings. So in the first statement for example:
"W:I guess we both wish we could have changed each other. I wanted you to treat me like you loved and cared for me while we were together and you want me to try now that we are apart. Maybe we just we not meant to be."
In RetroV they teach you to ask followup questions to clarify the feelings, and also to ask questions to find out how intense the feelings are. Your W expressed an issue above, but not the feelings behind it. So first, you want to seek her feelings:
"I hear you saying you didn't feel love or cared for, I can tell it was very difficult for you to go through, how did that make you feel?"
Whatever she responds back with, "sad" maybe, you then focus on that emotion. "I'm sure it did make you feel quite sad, I can understand why feeling unloved would make you sad. I'm sorry that I did things to make you feel that way."
As for the second one:
"W:I know you dont accept my choice but for once in our marriage please respect my wishes to move on. I am sorry (husband) but that is what I want. I havent waivered on that at all."
"I understand you're ready to move on, how do you feel about that?"
When you ask questions like this you often will be surprised at the answer. My W told me she was ready to move on without me and live life by herself. I asked her how she felt about it and was expecting "satisfied" or "content" and instead she said "scared". This is the whole reason for exploring emotions, because they are almost NEVER feeling what you think they are feeling. We're so programmed for mind-reading that we completely fail to seek to understand how people feel, we just make an assumption and run with it. The problem is our assumptions are wrong 95% of the time.
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What I got from wifes texts were, that she is DONE, moving on and not even thinking about looking back. I feel her words had incredible conviction to end this chapter of her life. I didn't hear any insight to make me feel otherwise. I haven't for a while thought there was the slightest bit of hope.
However, some of you felt that wasn't the full message.
What I hear in her texts is frustration. She sounds frustrated that you haven't changed, that the two of you are not getting along, and that everyone has turned against her (at least in her mind). Now I'm not saying I think she wants to reconcile, I'm just saying that right now she sees D as the only solution to her frustrations. You still have a chance to make the way home paved and smooth, right now it's overgrown and filled with boulders.
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Perhaps she isn't as done as I might think. Perhaps she is, but now I don't know. From her words and actions, I have felt she is COMPLETELY 100% done for some time.
This was a very hard lesson for me to grasp in my own sitch- just because she's done right now (assuming she is), that does not mean she can't/ won't change her mind. Many WAS's have indeed changed their minds, and this after expressing with 100% confidence that they were done and moving on. I personally know of 3 such cases in my own life outside of these forums where a WAW said they were done and moving on and later changed their mind.
I went through a phase in my sitch where I said "W is done, there's no question in my mind" and therefore I was ready to file for D myself. But I gave myself some more time, and upon doing some more reading I was reminded that they ALL say they're done at some point. It's script. It is no reason to file for D, or to say you're done, or to otherwise end your DB'ing. But it IS reason to detach. When they're done the only thing that might change their mind is some in-depth soul searching. They need time and space. Meanwhile we do everything we can to transform ourselves into the ultimate parent and spouse so that if they do start questioning their choice, when they look back they see someone more attractive than they remember.
Man, what an explanation, AS! You expressed that in words that I fully grasp and understand. Thank you for your effort in helping me, "get it".
Today, I sent a text to W. Our D has needed a dentists checkup almost since we sep. We have been putting it off and putting it off. I finally thought that is was very neglegent of us to put off our daugthers dental health because we were having issues. So, I made an apointment and in the text informed W that D has to be there at 10:30 on monday. I also made a point of saying that the cost is covered so she doesn't have to worry about that. Lack of funds was her reasoning why she couldnt agree to making the appointment :-/
She replied asking if she was supposed to take her. I said, "I can take her for sure, if you are busy".......no other replies from W
Moments ago, I pulled up in front of my house. W was parked across the street to pick daighter up from the school bus. She was with a friend. Once D got off the bus, W pulled away leaving friend and D to walk home. I am sure they planned on this previously, but W literally pealed away once I came home.....I just waived and smiled....Detach, right?
Are you trying to avoid asking w to do the dentist trip? Because it sounds confusing and a little bit annoying to leave it unclear and make her ask. When you sent the dentist appointment time but didn't say can you bring her, that was unclear. And then when she asked for clarification you still didn't say "yes, can u do it? i can if you're busy" For coparenting try to seem less squeamish about nailing down plans regarding D.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I wasn't trying to avoid asking her to take D. I just mentioned that I made her an apointment. Wife asked if I was taking her and I said I would be able to she was was not. She didn't reply, so I will contact her on Sunday night to see what she would like to do.....Daughter simply has a check up and one of us need to take her. I don't think that was a big issue, but maybe I am missing something?
Are you trying to avoid asking w to do the dentist trip? Because it sounds confusing and a little bit annoying to leave it unclear and make her ask. When you sent the dentist appointment time but didn't say can you bring her, that was unclear. And then when she asked for clarification you still didn't say "yes, can u do it? i can if you're busy" For coparenting try to seem less squeamish about nailing down plans regarding D.
Not to mention YOU made the apointment without asking your wife IF she could make it then, or wanted to go, OR if you could just handle it all yourself.
You "informed" her of the date YOU had already arranged and left her to infer that SHE would take her, unless she "asked" you to do so.
You put her in the position where she HAD TO ASK you b/c you did NOT volunteer to do it, "unless SHE was 'busy",( which is arguably you prying into what she's up to, which is arguably, none of your business.)
Why not call her BEFORE the call to the dentist, to say you want to make the appointment, it's covered by insurance and you'll take her, UNLESS wife wants to...
hmm?? SP, If that did not even cross your mind, you need to spend some time thinking about why.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
No....that absolutely did not cross my mind. Really, the only thing that crossed my mind was my daughters dental health. In retrospect, yes I definitely should have called wife prior to making the apointment. I acknowledge that. my bad. However In all honesty, I could care less what Wife was doing at 10:30am on a Monday morning, but I know she wouldn't have to work. I was not prying for information about her whereabouts. We live literally 5 minutes from the dentist. I was fully willing to take her, if was was not wanting or able to. Perhaps I approached it wrongly, but again Daughters well being was my only real concern.
Here is the exact context of the messages:
ME: I set up an apointment for (Daughter) to see the dentist. They had a Monday opening at 10:30am available. I hope that is okay?
WIFE: Are you taking her?
ME: I can if you're busy, sure! I have all the costs covered, so don't need money. (daughter) mentioned her tooth was sore the other day. I thought we better get her in for a checkup ASAP.
It's not that I read malevolent intentions, but lack of clarity which will create conflict and will create more negative feelings between the two of you unless you can learn to be more clear. For coparenting's sake I think that's really important.
What you described the first time is not exactly the same as what you quoted the second time.
But when you make an appointment during time that your w is considered "on duty" assuming your wife defaults to carrying it out, that's imposing! So your initial question would be more palatable if it included acknowkedgment that youre asking her to do something. "Do you mind taking her at that time?"
Her question of are you taking her was a reasonable request for clarification And was a yes or no question. Either: yes I'm just letting you know about the appointment or no I was hoping you could take her, Let me know if you can't and I will arrange to. Since you didnt answer her question you still dont know who's taking her, and youre both probably feeling frustrated with each other.
thats why i sggested youll get along better over coparenting D if you dont pussyfoot around making a clear request or clearly answering a yes or no question.
i wonder if you feel like its nicer or more polite to be circuitous, and i have a sibling who is like that. it is annoying and leaves me feeling manipulated becAuse instead of a clear request she gives me a whole bunch of words geared toward eliciting an offer from me, if i can figure out what she wants. annoying and unassertive.
this is a lot to read into that harmless little interaction, i'll grant you. but you were only recently accused of not listening to her through your entire marriage, which is a huge statement, and in this little interaction you did it twice, first in not clearly soliciting her input on and second in not hearing her question literally and answering it yes or no.
I think half your problem was communicating via text message. Maybe this would have been resolved quicker in a quick phone call, with please and thank you to make it clear youre asking her assistance not imposing on her.
You need to clarify it today if you didnt already. How about: "sorry if it seemed like i was assuming... Can you take d to the dentist appt? I wd appreciate it! Let me know either way; if you can't i will take her." Hopefully she will respond to that so you have this little matter cleared up!
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I texted wife because that is how she chooses to communicate now
I got in touch with wife yesterday and cleared up who was going to bring daughter. I will. I will also be taking her into school afterwards. I was obliging, but more assertive. I also appologized for potentially messing up her schedule and not conversing with her prior to arranging the apointment. I just expressed that Daughter complained about a sore tooth, and I thought I had better make arrangements to get her in immediately.
This weekend, wife was also present at a gathering of friends. We engaged each other a couple times about simple matters or conversation, but for the most part were just civil and separate. Again, it was odd and a few of the people at the gathering later expressed that it was uncomfortable and awkward for them. I didn't reply much about it other than saying, "I am empathetic for wife. This is a really tough situation and she is trying to handle it the best she can. Please realize she is the same person she has always been. This is just a difficult time for her and I. I am sorry that it was awkward for you".
