Confused about what I want

[job]

I am going to offer my thoughts on your situation, but they are what I would do if this happened to me. I would file for a divorce and request child support and be sure to stipulate in the decree about your finances, home and whatever your children may need in the way of health insurance all of the incidentals that they need for their activties. I would not wait around on him because he's made it known to you what is on his mind.

The divorce decree is only a piece of paper. There are a number of people who actually get back together in a few years, remarry and go on to live happy lives. Sometimes this happens and there is always hope for the future, but in the mlcer's case, they have to completely destroy everything in order to see the light. In some cases, they are never the same after the crisis and then there are others who turn out to be wonderful, solid individuals.

It's time to seek the advice of a lawyer and get something done. Just my two cents.

[BRNR]

Thanks everyone this morning.

Snodderly, you are right that it is time to get something done. I am feeling better after getting out my tears and frustrations.

I am not changing my mind about seeking legal advice, but I am pretty sure that I am not going to file for the divorce. My stance from day one to H was that if he wanted it, he could get it. And quite frankly, he has all the means to be able to do so. I reflected on a lot and think this was to get a reaction out of me. Which I have not given, and I am going to do everything in my power to not give him one.

At this time, I am thinking I will go do the support and custody thing. But my attorney may have different advice. IDK. But I want to go in with an open mind and true to what I believe.

As we all have said...The MLC'ers are going to do what they want, and if he needs to proceed further, then I should let him. These may just be idle threats.

He started this, he can finish it.

[golf mom]

From my own experience I can tell you that not taking action and remaining at the mercy of H's next move created a lot of anxiety and feelings of hopelessness. It was also because of my inaction that I had a lot of resentment building up over H's seemingly better life without me. The truth is I have no idea whether his life is better or worse and I gave him a lot of legal leverage by just responding without taking any initiative to demand what I want and need for me and the boys. He has had lots of money while I have struggled. I wish I would have had a temporary support order in place instead of just letting the attorneys decide on an amount.

Try to separate your feelings for your H from the action that you might need to take to protect yourself. Find an attorney that you feel comfortable with. I didn't hire the first one I consulted. Follow the advice. The attorney can lay out your options and help you decide on the best one.

For what it's worth I'm not sure how much I was holding onto my H and marriage because I really loved him or I was just lonely and fearful of my future without him in it. My fear definitely kept me confused and feeling victimized. Either way I deserve and want better for myself than I am getting and so do you. Holding yourself in high regard and taking the best action for you and your kids doesn't mean you don't love your H or want a reconciliation. By respecting yourself and meeting your own needs you will teach your H how you want to be treated.

[wishing, hoping]

Hey BRNR

Can you file for legal separation? It's not as drastic as divorce, but still offers you some protection.

And I agree. While I was waiting it out and letting H make all the decisions in order not to rock the boat I made myself a wreck. I took action to protect myself and my kids. H is mad mad mad but I am protected. And H is only looking out for his own best interest. You need to do the same.

(((Hugs)))
WH

[AJM]

But I want to go in with an open mind and true to what I believe.

That is something you likely will never regret, BRNR. I know I never have regretted taking that approach. I stuck to it the entire time although at the end I was willing to file without question. But I left it to her to file the sep agreement, the divorce, etc. I stuck to my values.

I agree with the others in the sense that it left me feeling like I was just on the end of a rope. Like I wasn't taking charge. It was worth it for me although not pleasant. I feel although I suffered a few things unnecessarily, I am much better off in the long run.

One thought - don't do it because of fear. Don't do anything because of fear. There is nothing to fear, seriously. His choices and actions are his. Yours are yours. But fear shouldn't drive your actions and decisions. Believe me, he'll pick up on and exploit it if fear is present. It's in the nature of a MLCr. When you make your next choice, do so with an open mind and with your interests at heart. Come what may, you do need to take care of you and your family. He needs to do the same, but he's only capable of making his own decisions and taking care of himself. Leave it at that. The judge will figure out the rest -that's what they do.

And get it ingrained in your head - your H won't be anything but angry no matter what you do. That's because it's not you that caused his anger. If you do nothing, he'll be angry. If you give him everything, he'll be angry. If you take everything, guess what? He'll be angry. See the pattern? You can't cause him to be happy or sad or angry. He's wrapped up in his own little angry world and until he gets out of it, that's where he'll be. You can't help or hurt at this time.

Peace,
AJ

[BRNR]

Wow. Thank you everyone! This forum really is a lifeline for me.

I had a great day today got a few errands done, S14 soccer game, and just hanging out with a girlfriend and her son and talking about a lot of things including sitch. I am getting ready to pop in a movie now and maybe a glass of wine!

So lot of good stuff in these post. Giving me strength and courage all over...thank you guys. Some of my favorite takeaways from these post today...
-do what is in the best interest of YOU and the children
-no matter what is done, H will feel the way he feels, which most likely be angry
-Divorce or any legal action doesn't mean that I don't love H, it is just a piece of paper
-people sometimes remarry, even after divorce.
-don't do or NOT do anything out of fear

I have learned so much about me in the last twenty four hours, more than I could even imagine...it is almost as if a weight was lifted...

The last bullet point, don't do or not do anything out of fear...apparently I have been fearing a lot more than I realized...
-I feared if I sought something legal it would reinforce to him why he was leaving. Really why should I care? It will not change anything, and really he has already left and has been gone for almost six months now.
-because of the financials, I have felt for quite some time that he has a HOLD on me and this has given me a lot of anxiety. Because he just really doesn't care about anybody but himself anymore, I learned that HE will not do what is in the best interest of me or his children at this time and maybe never. I need to seek action and take back my control...of me....and what I want....without fearing that it will push him further away.
-I need to stop worrying about whether my H will or will not come back to me. I have feared everything I do or say around him, which has been draining on me...current day H I really don't like at all...and I really need to see this H for what/who he is...which is a liar, cheater, condescending d0uch3b@g...who also turned into a horrible father, an untrustworthy friend, who is only out for himself. OW can have that...

What is meant to be will be...I am getting comfortable more and more every day with myself. I will be more than okay no matter where the chips fall, and honestly, having some of my own independence again feels kinda good right now. I can go where I want, do what I want, spend what I want (with or without my boys)...Without discussing anything with anyone or even justifying it....(wait did I just slip into MLC for a moment)...lol!

Wow! I feel even more weight lifting as I write all this.

Sorry for the long post, but this is the most positive I have felt in a long time...at least about the sitch!!! Someone is giving me some extra positive vibes today...

Good night everyone.

[Portia]

Wow B,

What a day for you! I was sorry to read about your H's email. The cowardly twerp. I agree with you. If they want to leave, fine but why do they leave in the most destructive way possible and with as little compassion as possible? That discussion should have at least occurred in person ( if it had to at all) but they keep swinging that wrecking ball.

(((((B))))) I think you are doing the right thing. Process everything. Scream and cry especially since the boys are gone for the weekend. And see your lawyer on Monday. Listen to your options. Think about what is best for you. Family law lawyers have seen it all before (trust me) They are the experts in you jurisdiction and you are paying for their advice. It is OK if you ask for some time to think about and digest what the lawyer says. Golf mom gave you excellent personal advice. This is the business side of things. Strong does not equal nasty.

We are here for you. You are not alone. As you said in your list above, divorce does not have to be the end of the line for your relationship but it may offer some protections for you and give you some space to breathe.

Take care.

[BRNR]

Ughhh! Didn't wake up feeling so good this morning.

Question of the day. Why won't my H give our marriage a second chance?

I evaluated some things this morning and realized that I may very well have to file the divorce. So much is happening so fast....I don't want the divorce, but I don't want me and the boys to struggle financially either.

Not enough time has past for me to close the door on things...but H seems adamant in OW, starting over, hurting everyone, and even the divorce it seems even though he hasn't filed (I think).

During these past 5-6 months I have tried to give H all the space he needs, but space seemed to confirm his choices in my sitch. I really do feel I gave him too much space, and now this IS the end. I don't like it, not one bit.

I re-read all the emails he has sent me in the past six months, this last one was all business and no emotion. One thing that does bother me is the clarity he seems to display, the rationality of things. it doesn't seem extreme....almost as he is fully aware of what he is doing and knows this is the right thing.

Five months is not enought time for me to be able to move on without him, yet he can do it all the same.

For all the divorced veterans, how did you know things were really over and stopped having hope that things would turn around. how did you get to that point?

Idk. Trying to pull myself out of this funk this morning....I don't want to drag my feet on this and want to move forward. Where is the kill switch in my brain and heart? How does the MLC'er do it?

[job]

BRNR,
Whether you had given him space or not, as a mlcer, he would continue doing what he is doing because he is on a journey of self discovery which includes separating and possibly divorcing. Many of them, whether they are living at home or on the street, think of divorce. Some will act on it and others won't, but threaten to do so when cornered. They think that the divorce decree is going to make the world a better place for them, that the pressure will be off and you, the lbs, will finally back off, leave them alone and they won't have the be accountable and have responsiblity.

Unfortunately, that picture is not always as rosy as they think. They forget that there are bills to pay, two households to finance and yes, let's not forget the child support and all of the expenses that this will incur, as well as spousal support if necessary. They forget all of that and yet, the grass growing over the septic tank continues to call them because it looks so much greener than where they are standing right now.

Once they are divorced, the euphoria of finally being free as a bird will continue for about 6-12 months. The op is theirs and they now can be out in the open and do whatever they want...but the fantasy can't live on forever because the normal, mundane life slowly begins to creep in. The op begins to demand things from the mlcer, marriage, they want a new home w/all of the trappings, etc. The mlcer will begin to feel the pressure all over again and guess what? He now how to start looking at his life again. Of course, you, the children and the lifestyle that you are living will now be blamed...do not drink from that pitcher of kool aid...

You are lucky you had five months...I have two and he was gung ho on divorce and never looked back. Many will push for the divorce because they feel pressured by us. They don't like the fact that we are waiting, hoping that they'll change their minds. They have to prove to us and the world that they've made the right decision and some will not back down.

For me, I knew when he walked out the door the second time, he would never return because he knew that he had created so much damage that it could never be repaired. There's always hope in any situation. Today, we are civil to each other. He's nothing more than a distant acquaintance who is going through a difficult time w/his wife (ow) suffering from cancer. I looked at him 8 years ago and had absolutely no feelings for him because he was a total stranger, someone I would pass on the street.

The mlcer hit the kill switch a year or so before he/she dropped the bomb. By the time we learn of the situation, they've already moved on. Keep in mind, any and all feelings for us are stuffed way down and may not resurface for many years to come...that's how they do it.

I'm sorry you are having to deal w/this, but you need to get your ducks in a row financially. It's okay to leave the door ajar, but you need to protect your assets, as well as looking out for your children. The mlcer does not like to "share" funds w/the spouse and children and they consider money as theirs and theirs alone. This is now a business transaction and you need negotiate w/your head and not your heart.

Please take care of yourself.

[golf mom]

B, I can really relate to feeling good and in control one day and feeling sad and hopeless the next. I can't emphasize enough the importance of taking the necessary steps to protect you and the kids. Listen to Snodderly and others who are years ahead of you on this journey. They have the experience and clarity that you won't have for awhile.

As long as the OW is in the picture your H will have no incentive to fix himself or your marriage. They are in la la land right now. Also, OW has her own agenda and may be a constant bug in your H's ear. She is not concerned about you and the kids. Your H has told her his "story" about his life with you and she has likely validated everything he has said. He does know the truth, B, and he may have moments when he remembers who you really are and what you and the kids mean to him.

As the veteran's have said, MLC takes years to resolve. You've been at this a very short time. I'm a year ahead of you and while I am doing well on my own and am not so heartbroken anymore I am still living with anxiety over my house and finances. It's only recently that I starting dealing with all of my fears and am willing to take all of my attorney's advice. I was willing to walk away with basic necessities.That was incredibly foolish on my part. I have wasted months of time and money trying to settle the D. During that time my H became more and more selfish and his gf is starting to demand things, like a house. Neither of them cares about me and the boys. My H wants to get out cheap and his gf just wants him free. So, please, B, listen to Snodderly and take action.

Think of taking action as a 180. You've been in a holding pattern and nothing has changed. By having a plan not only will you start feeling in control again, but your H will start facing the repercussions of his choices. D is expensive and stressful. I can tell you that when I saw my H in court last month he looked like hell. He seemed tired, stressed and miserable. Prior to that I hadn't seen him in almost a year. In my mind I imagined him with a young, beautiful, carefree woman and thought he was having the time of his life. It's ridiculous that I was sabotaging my own happiness with made up images. Those thoughts kept me heartbroken and paralyzed.

Snodderly is so right about MLCers telling on themselves. My H has refused to turn over any financial records, but I have received emails from him where he lays out his whole situation. He was foolish enough to forward emails between him and a mortgage broker where he brags about how much money he has in the bank. (At that time we had agreed to refi our house together so he was providing proof that he took action.) Here's another winning move. Because my H has not changed his address I have received all of his mail (which I read and toss) including the preliminary loan documents for the house he tried to buy. Listed was the large amount of cash (tens of thousands) that he was using for a down payment. Again, never disclosed during the D. BTW, I've talked to the broker/lender who now knows that my H hasn't lived at my address in a long time - fraud! The same broker has pre-approved me for a refi loan on my own. That letter was just given to my H's attorney. He'll flip. Again, B, I didn't think I would be able to refi on my own so my fear has given my H serious leverage over me in the negotiations. I was willing to give up everything else just so he would agree to refi the house with me.

I made serious mistakes. Please learn from them. Also, listen to AJ, don't make any decisions out of fear!

B, elevate yourself immediately. You are deserving of respect and unconditional love no matter what. You deserve to have your financial needs met without worrying whether your H will be mad at you or not. They all get mad when we take action. But like AJ wrote, your H will be mad whether you take action or not.

I understand the need to figure out what happened to your H and marriage. Once you understand your part, let the rest go. Decide how you want to live your life from this point on. Who do you want to be?

"We can't go back and make a brand new start, but we can start today to make a brand new ending."