Keep on, keeping on!

[reb9597]

You're right labug. You know better than anyone, it's hard to be stationary for so long! MC kept making an error & said two times, you've been separated for 9 months? No! 10 going on 11!

Positives: better communication, touching some boundaries about asking what type of communication he wants in future, still going to MC, complimented me on girls, H says he's not closed to idea of changing his mind again, he asked to stay in house while we're gone for a night, nice dinner with family.

I want more... in time.

[reb9597]

I realize this morning that it's difficult for me to be encouraged or excited about anything positive from H based on lack of trust still. I'm trying to be open to trusting him again, but it's a giant leap of faith without any reassurances from H. So it clouds my reality because I have a 'yeah, but...' response in my head to any positive actions from H.

I'm going to concentrate my efforts on being the person I truly want to be. Regardless of what H does, positive or negative.

[labug]

I haven't been stationary. I may still be separated but this has not been static for me. I would never have changed as I have had this not happened. Not that I recommend separation as a self improvement workshop but the universe had to get my attention in some way.

About the wanting more...have you always wanted just a little more? You talk about your H working so much, was that because you wanted just a little more? Could have have looked elsewhere because he was hearing you were never satisfied?

Be happy with what you have today.

[azguy]

I'll be honest with you. Your posts have me worried. You're making really good progress in establishing a better R with H. I can imagine this will a long time and may not lead where you want. What will you do as this process diverges from you expectations?

MC asked if he had feelings of guilt and he said no. What's that about???? Deep denial?

You expect him to feel guilty? Is it a dealbreaker if he never does? It sounds like you're waiting for him to realize mistakes and apologize. I suspect it won't work out that way.

The fact that you don't know why he feels this way is a good chance to learn more about how he is thinking about the situation. Put aside your expectations and listen the next time this comes up.

I don't feel I have permission to call and ask how his day was. H asked, why would I feel that way? I said that our communication has been so bad or non-existent and there seems to be a wall there. I asked him if he wanted more open communication on a personal level and he just said 'let me think about it'. (Duh! That's the wall I was referring to!)

So, you bring up a concern, H expresses interest in learning why you feel that way, and you respond by pressuring him to have more open communication. When he backs off you attribute it to your original concern. Sounds controlling to me.

I would suggest offering to try something new on your end, and ask whether that would be okay with him, rather than ask for something from him.

Me: 'I know you're goals and objectives are different with the MC than mine are. And I really appreciate you being open to this experience. I read something today that I wanted to share with you (an AS post on another thread!), that if someone had told you on our wedding day or the many years after that you would have fallen out of love with me, you never would have believed them. Your feelings and thinking have changed. And I am hoping that they can change again'

H: 'I'm not closed to that'.

Me: 'I don't want the same relationship as before. I'm not the same person so it'd have to be different. You're different too. (then I backtracked a little) Actually I feel a lot like the old me, before kids and stress and BS.

H: 'I don't know if I can remember back that far' :l

More pressure. Good that you realize it.

I would just stop checking in with him in this area. You'll be able to see from his actions how he feels, and I bet he'll appreciate the space.

Maybe he's still too deep in the fog. I don't know how to make him feel worthwhile if he doesn't want to be open with me. It feels like we're cousins, or people that have grown up together and have a deep affection but not the love attraction we'll need to have a renewed marriage.

So, this is what worries me. A lot of focus on him and how he needs to change for this to work. I feel the same way in my R, but its important to keep reminding yourself this is out of your control. And there are a lot of things in your control that you CAN work on. Focus on those.

A new R has to start with some connection. And that's there. It's a small seedling at the moment. Just keep nurturing it.

I see your later posts are focusing on you. Great! I wanted to reply to this message to point out the specific areas I think you can work on. Hang in there!

[labug]

What's up?

[JuneReN]

Hey Reb, we are pretty much at the same spot, I think. The key here is to not expect anything, good or bad. Only the expectations you have of yourself can have any validity.

Bug is right when she says that the place we are now could not have occurred if the situation itself had not occurred. In that, we have to find a gift, you know?

While no one wants to be in these situations, we have lost and gained so much that we become stronger and better.

I feel, too, that I am the person I used to be, but better. Kinder, happier, not looking for the blame or the "better" or the "what if". I am content with today

[reb9597]

I've returned from trip to Boston. Had a really great time. I listened to both my dds perform and I'm very grateful for the experience. I needed the time to myself to reflect. I can see that I was reacting to the stress of life in the past couple of weeks, which pushes my control button. I'm feeling much more detached and open now, which is a good thing because it's my birthday today! I'm looking forward to having drinks with a girlfriend tonight. H texted me first thing this morning wishing my a happy bday.

Could have have looked elsewhere because he was hearing you were never satisfied?

I appreciate all your advice, labug, but I don't accept this statement. I understand it and can strive for forgiveness based on this understanding, but I'll never accept that my actions caused him to look elsewhere. H is responsible for his own actions. I'm grateful I can understand the ingredients to this recipe, but H's moral failure is his own. Can I love him in spite and through this ordeal? I'd like to think so and I know I couldn't have a year ago, so I'm glad, in a way, to have my feelings challenged. It is true I'm a better version of myself now. Unfortunately, it's hard to see how H can ever be a better version of himself without taking responsibility for his actions. And yes, azguy, that's a dealbreaker for me.

But I'm okay with things for today. I extended trust while gone and H came and went from my house, don't know what he did but I came home actually not worried about it. Haven't noticed anything amiss and it was a good first step towards trust. He washed my car and filled it with gas so that's a win!

H picked me up from airport and we had about 2 hours before dds plane arrived. We got some dinner and talked, it was really good for about the first hour. Then he seemed to withdraw and I overcompensated by talking too much. It's okay, it's again a new skill to be able to live in the moment and see the reality of the situation instead of reacting to the negative feelings.

D15 came home withdrawn and irritated (overly tired and she started liking a boy on the trip) and I needled her too much on the way home from the airport. H kind of snapped at me 'let her speak'. I'm a big teaser and it gets worse when I'm tired or nervous. This was the text conv with H last night, when talking about dds' trip.

Me: ... d15 was grumpy and had bad attitude last night but she was better and ready to open up tonight. On her terms & that's okay.

H: I could tell last night that she wasn't in the mood to share so much and when you and d18 cut her off, it pissed me off a bit because 1) you guys always do it and 2) she rarely opens up. I'm glad she finally said something to you. I hope it inspires her to keep working hard.

Me: I'm glad you said something. We just talked about interrupting again tonight. And I've realized over the last 6 mo that I'm not as good of a listener as I always thought I was. Something I'm working on.

This is improved communication for us. In the past, he probably wouldn't have said anything. Or if he had, I would've taken it personally and sulked. And we definitely wouldn't have discussed the situation calmly afterwards.

Lastly, I had benign breast tumor in 2009 and went to doctor yesterday and have another mass in the same breast. So I have to go through the ultrasound and mammogram in 2 weeks and likely lumpectomy afterwards. I'm not too worried about the health aspect, but it sure triggered the memories from 2009 when we were more unsure of the results and H's desperate tears and him saying "what would I do if I lost you?". I'll remember that forever.

Here's an interesting reflection: in 2009 I had to believe it was nothing to get through it . And it was nothing. But I can see now that I may have 100% discounted H's feelings about the situation. And my own. I didn't tell anyone except H, I didn't address or talk about any of my own fears, I ignored H's fears, and it was done & no big deal.

So to have to go through the same thing now without H brought up a lot of feelings yesterday. But I don't want to live the same way, ignoring feelings. So I called H last night and told him the news. He was very concerned and supportive, offered to take the day off of work and take me to appointment. I declined, but it felt good to tell him. And I didn't joke about it, which is my way of dealing with things and it actually took effort to not make a self effacing joke. I accepted his support and told him that it meant a lot to me. I admitted that I wasn't sure I wanted to tell him or not, but I knew I'd want to know if something was happening to him. And he said he was really glad I told him. It seems another step towards rebuilding trust in some way. He texted a couple times afterwards asking if d18 could take me. I was worried that telling him would be seen as guilt or sympathy inducing, but it feels okay now.

I agree with IO comments, I like this version of me better. I feel kinder and am working at being softer. My expectations feel in check this week so it's all good.

I'm extremely grateful for the support of this board, for I don't think I would've grown so much without it.

[labug]

Reb, I know that sounded harsh and it wasn't posed as you taking responsibility for his actions, that's all his. I just know that I've had to look closely at my old behaviors, one of them being always wanting just a little more, and realize how difficult that is to live with day in and day out. It's a shaming sort of thing.

But if it's not you, it's not you.

Glad you had a good time with your daughters and that communication with H is better.

And you are changing, every time you post you seem calmer, more together.

[reb9597]

bug, I admit I needed a little bit to digest your comment, but I do understand where you're coming from and can relate. I have always had very high standards for myself that I held others to also. The only result for that way of thinking is that I was always disappointed. I tried to change this thought process over the past 5 years or so and I did let go of a lot, especially with my parents etc and even some parts of H. H didn't used to work so much, I think it was when I stopped fighting it so much that he went crazy with work - but I only recently understand his motivations now and it's not the abandonment that I took it for previously.

I did not let up on my kids and that's the unfortunate thing, but it has a silver lining. They are driven young people now and have had many experiences they wouldn't have had but for me pushing and pushing from behind.

I do worry that my high standards for myself will prevent any true r attempt with H in the future. I want to forgive and move forward in our R. I want to challenge my way of thinking and surprise myself and grow. I keep hitting a wall about reaching a certain point and not being able to move any more forward without true repentance from him. That may never come. At this point, that's where we will eventually part ways.

I know it's possible to find that grace within ones inner self to not need anything from the other partner. I just haven't got there yet.

[reb9597]

getting to know myself... I talked about ^^ with IC today. Also about my not tapping into/giving recognition to H's feelings about 2009 medical issue. She says it sounds like lack of empathy. I'm thinking, no, I am very empathetic. But am I? I understand other's pain & feelings, but I've noticed recently that I am really insecure about how to react to H's expression of feelings (even though they're minor right now). I don't deal with feelings well, I just put my head down and soldier on.

Why? Because I was the emotional sponge for my narcissistic mother for the first 25 years of my life. I was used for her emotional dumping grounds (trigger! same words I've used for what I did to H). I was never allowed or encouraged to have feelings of my own, but I had to be there for mother's feelings. And she had lots of them.

Then when I had enough of that co-dependent relationship with my mother, I cut it off. I didn't speak with my mother for 6 years and haven't talked to her in the last 6 months. I feel myself getting sucked into the same patterns with her whenever we do speak. Even last summer when we were speaking a little, she had to relate everything, all of my pain and experiences, to the betrayals she had in her own life.

That contributed to my 'get it done' mentality because I had to suffer through many things in life/R with H/family because I shut off empathy to others including myself!

Now what to do with this new understanding and how to use it...