Hi twopointfour, I'm no sandi, but I can tell you that you really do need to detach more. I know it's hard, and jeez I struggle with it too, but it is absolutely essential. Now, I've got a couple of things to say here, which I hope you'll take in the constructive sense that they're intended. Here goes:
Every time we say "but my sitch is different", or "I'm doing my best but I don't think it works for me" or, yes, "I'm worried about the kids", we know that deep down what we're really saying is "I'm scared, I'm lonely, and I just want my W back so I'm gonna do what feels right, even though I can see that it's not working and all the veterans are telling me that I'm deluding myself into thinking that that ever will work".
There's no getting around the fact that all of us are in perhaps the most difficult, most gut-wrenching situation we've ever experienced. And what our hearts tell us to do is "fight!" But that just won't work. Instead what we need to do, as you've heard it said a million times, is focus on you! You MUST stop pursuing and start detaching. As I've been telling lots of other DBers lately, constantly reminding W that you want her back is like giving her a safety net that lets her go out and take chances, all the while knowing that you'll be there to catch her if she falls. At least, that is, until she feels confident enough with her new trick to perform it without a net, with all the peril that entails. If you deny her that safety net by detaching, taking the pressure off of her, focussing on you, you force her to really think about the step off the cliff she's about to take. She's got to have space to realize the consequences of the actions she's considering taking.
Try to think about the ways you've been fooling yourself about DBing and your efforts in applying them. I think you'll find that there are plenty of things to improve and you'll understand why it's important to listen to what the vets say to you on these boards.
Stay positive, 2.4. And be patient.
M41 W42 M 12 T 15 S10, D9, twin Ds 3 1/2 BD 1/2/2013 Living as roommates Working on D agreement w. mediator 5/13
As I've been telling lots of other DBers lately, constantly reminding W that you want her back is like giving her a safety net that lets her go out and take chances, all the while knowing that you'll be there to catch her if she falls. At least, that is, until she feels confident enough with her new trick to perform it without a net, with all the peril that entails. If you deny her that safety net by detaching, taking the pressure off of her, focussing on you, you force her to really think about the step off the cliff she's about to take. She's got to have space to realize the consequences of the actions she's considering taking.
^^^I like. Thanks papa!
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Hi twopointfour, I'm no sandi, but I can tell you that you really do need to detach more. I know it's hard, and jeez I struggle with it too, but it is absolutely essential. Now, I've got a couple of things to say here, which I hope you'll take in the constructive sense that they're intended. Here goes:
Every time we say "but my sitch is different", or "I'm doing my best but I don't think it works for me" or, yes, "I'm worried about the kids", we know that deep down what we're really saying is "I'm scared, I'm lonely, and I just want my W back so I'm gonna do what feels right, even though I can see that it's not working and all the veterans are telling me that I'm deluding myself into thinking that that ever will work".
There's no getting around the fact that all of us are in perhaps the most difficult, most gut-wrenching situation we've ever experienced. And what our hearts tell us to do is "fight!" But that just won't work. Instead what we need to do, as you've heard it said a million times, is focus on you! You MUST stop pursuing and start detaching. As I've been telling lots of other DBers lately, constantly reminding W that you want her back is like giving her a safety net that lets her go out and take chances, all the while knowing that you'll be there to catch her if she falls. At least, that is, until she feels confident enough with her new trick to perform it without a net, with all the peril that entails. If you deny her that safety net by detaching, taking the pressure off of her, focussing on you, you force her to really think about the step off the cliff she's about to take. She's got to have space to realize the consequences of the actions she's considering taking.
Try to think about the ways you've been fooling yourself about DBing and your efforts in applying them. I think you'll find that there are plenty of things to improve and you'll understand why it's important to listen to what the vets say to you on these boards.
Stay positive, 2.4. And be patient.
Wow Papa4life - that's a great post. You are a DBing Jedi now! Great to hear you talking this way, and certainly what I need reminding as I am sure we all do.
Its all too easy to fall back into pursuit even if its unintentional, by simply being over helpful and supportive. I am falling into this trap all the time, and lets say the helping arm stretching out is more holding the hand of W at some points.
I need to dim it down a bit. I think its the threat of her trip away which is making me panic and want results. The fact is I have some. Even if she still makes snide comments and only yesterday told me she does not want to be married to me.
We are planning a vacation - this was never on the books before. And she will allow me to give her a hug and cuddle when she is down, which was a no go before. Not sure if this is right, but sometimes its for me just as much as her.
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
Thanks 2.4, I'm glad you took my post in the spirit in which it was intended. As I've said repeatedly, a lot of the time when I'm responding to others, I'm really talking to myself. Writing things down helps me organize my thoughts so hopefully we both can benefit if by some miracle I happen upon a valid point, then maybe it gives us both something to think about.
As for the latest developments, I would say the odd hug/cuddle is a baby step. Just don't get overly excited about it, because as you said, in the very next breath she can tell you she still wants out. It's like she's trying on a coat in the store and you're the salesman. Don't follow her around the store and pressure her into buying. Just compliment her on how it looks, let her take her time to make a choice and let the goods sell themselves with no pressure. Is that a good comparison?
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with reciprocating when she initiates contact, just don't be overly enthusiastic about it and have ni expectations. This is just as much for you as it is for her, because if you move to wuickly it'll make W think you feel that everything is great again, and if you get too excited you'll be disappointed when she starts pulling back again in that cycle of approach/retreat. Just be patient and think baby steps.
Adventure? Excitemeny? A Jedi seeks not these things.
M41 W42 M 12 T 15 S10, D9, twin Ds 3 1/2 BD 1/2/2013 Living as roommates Working on D agreement w. mediator 5/13
Take a deep breath and try to remain calm. What your wife is doing is sorting things out now in her life. People in mlc do not wait until the ink is dry on the divorce decree to do so. People in mlc have been thinking about ao new life long before the bomb drop, sometimes 1-3 years prior to announcing that they are unhappy.
She's on a fact finding mission...whether she acts upon what she learns will be another matter. Until that time, continue as you have been.
Keep the focus on you!
Thanks. I will do my best to carry on as I was. I think I am struggling with my thoughts at the moment, almost having a second realisation that this is happening . I guess before I convinced myself I could turn this around and time was on my side. Now I am doubting this, and of course this is why i need to look after me. It's the letting go that troubles me most, I just 100% believe W will have an easier life if I do this - like giving a spoilt child exactly what they want.
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
I am curious though, how did you happen to find out?
Ah! The magic of social networking sites that alert everybody of who people have connected to. W has seen this therapist before to get over a fear of something , looks like she is a jack of all trades!
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
This may seem like an odd thing to say - but I am thinking about whether the banter and little jokes at each others expense are what may be missing a little. my walking on eggshells has probably stopped me from joking around which I know we used to so a lot of over the years. My w thrives on bit of banter and mockery. It feels like the wrong thing to be doing right now, but maybe that's the right thing to do.
Am I thinking too much about how to please W again, rather than myself?
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
This may seem like an odd thing to say - but I am thinking about whether the banter and little jokes at each others expense are what may be missing a little. my walking on eggshells has probably stopped me from joking around which I know we used to so a lot of over the years. My w thrives on bit of banter and mockery. It feels like the wrong thing to be doing right now, but maybe that's the right thing to do.
Am I thinking too much about how to please W again, rather than myself?
Try it and monitor results. If she seems receptive, go with it. If not, back off.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Well, as you probably know, the ban on Jedi marrying was due to changes in the structure of the Jedi Council and Jedi Order. Before 4,000 BBY, the Jedi Order was made up of loosely affiliated local groups. After the Great Sith War, they became a unified organization under the Jedi High Council, which began to reinterpret the Jedi Code. So... Wait, sorry. Wrong board
But seriously, I don't see the harm in being a bit lighthearted with your W. As long as you don't have any expectations of her reciprocating or even responding. We do what works, give it some time, see how they respond and adjust accordingly. Being more lighthearted might be a signal to your W that you are feeling positive no matter what happens in your sitch. But, as with all things, don't overdo it and don't get overly enthusiastic if she responds well.
Hey that reminds me. Star wars day is Saturday. May the 4th be with you!
M41 W42 M 12 T 15 S10, D9, twin Ds 3 1/2 BD 1/2/2013 Living as roommates Working on D agreement w. mediator 5/13
