Suckerpunch down to the wire

[swoop]

don't think that divorcing will end your pain any sooner.

I don't either. What I do beleive; is it will allow me to move forward when I am able to without digging up old feelings and heartache during a divorce. I really think that part is inevitable, whether it is today, next year, 5 years from now, whenever. Why position myself for future heartache and emotion when I am possibly in an otherwise "great place" with my life?

It just reduces the chances of your growth and a reconciliation. I have two family members who divorced and reconciled a few years later. Maybe it's what it will take for YOU to make the changes you need

and for your wife to believe in them. But this concept that you are victim here is going to stunt your growth

and harm your R with your w.

I whole heartedly agree that it will drastically reduce the chances of reconciling. I disagree that it will reduce my chances of personal growth. If I am committed to bettering myself, I don't fully agree that I will have to be in THIS relationship to do so. I do see the point you're making, but I will use a phrase you mentioned in your reply...."fortune telling".

Even if all you want to do is co-parent with her then stop talking about how Unfair SHE Is...you have amnesia, I swear. But the thing is, we don't. I read your whole thread and you had a lot more insight at the start, or at least you admitted your role and how your behavioral choices killed a lot of love in her.

Her love is hidden under her pain and anger and wounded pride and repeatedly being put down and worn down by your belittling ways. Most of what I just said came right out of your first thread.

I am not a victim, even though I do feel some of the feelings of being a victim. I am sure my wife feels victimized at some level as well. However, I have not started to deny my role in the demise of our marriage. I KNOW I could have been a better husband and a better man. I should have been then. I wish to be now. I also realize that my wifes feelings towards me deteriorated while WE kept score, while WE were combative with each other, while WE were unaffectionate towards each other, etc.

This is tragic. Yes it is.
But the more you continue to harp about how wrong she is, and how right and victimized you are, the worse your daughter's life will be and the less likely you are, to really change. I mean, Why should YOU change, if this is all her fault anyhow?

I have never once said that, 25. That is not fair to put that on me. I realize your point, but you are putting words, feelings and actions on me that aren't really there.

Also, all the future predictions about how she won't change "even if" you do are just excuses for you to stop working on you. It's fortune telling that only helps you justify a divorce and giving up.

Is it? I see how it could be, but I honestly don't think that is what I am feeling.

I just don't believe your present choices are being made with reflection and nor do I think you'll be happier or more at peace by filing.

I know I won't be happier. I fully realize that. However, I am not happy now, and wife is hell bent to go in that direction. Will prolonging it honestly make it better? I mean if it will, by all means I am IN. However, I don't "see" how getting it over with at this point (given Wifes actions and intentions since day one) will make it any worse. Am I being niave?

I understand your concern about your wife and daughter leaving the country.

THAT is my single biggest concern. Is it likely, I do not know. Is it possible, absolutely. Am I willing to risk losing my daughter, living a pipe dream that wife and I will reconcile, not a chance!

But the refusal to file for a sep because you can't "go thru this again" rings hollow.

Separation is NOT necessarily a step towards divorce but it would protect the ONE legit claim you have about needing to do something to protect your custody rights.

The idea that filing for divorce sooner, rather than later, assumes divorce is inevitable AND assumes somehow you'll have less pain because of filing now.

I don't buy either claim.

I don't think filing sooner will lessen my pain. That really isn't my intention. My only real considerations are, protecting my daugter from being taken out of the country and putting off another round of emotions and heartache at a later date. I know I could stop the issue of my wife fleeing to Canada by filing for a sep., but will that keep me from being hurt a year from now or whenver we actuall DO file for divorce? I doubt it. It is going to be horrible, regardless of the "date".

But if it's done then so be it.

I have no other means to know if it is done, other than wifes solid conviction that it is so. That is not me mind reading or fortune telling. That is her saying, "I am done, and I am moving on with my life". She has not waivered once in 6 months and it continues to progress forward. She is now actively dating. What reason in the world would I have not to think this marriage was done?

Just don't stop the work you have to do. And it will stop if you keep blaming her.

Lose the anger. I hope you'll see someone or do a workshop or something to learn how to cope with your anger, better.

You seem to need to REACT when you feel bad, and that's just you surrendering to the urge.

It's not new behavior of yours, it's the same.

I am aware of this, actually from everyone (including you) pointing it out. I see it clearly now. I know I have to work on it. It does control me to an extent.