Unlearning conflict avoidance 4

[25yearsmlc]

"My W said I was sorry for myself, "as usual", and she was right. "

I disagree. I'm sure you actually felt bad for chipping her tooth.

STOP AGREEING WITH HER. She was a b*tch to think you did it on purpose. Start fighting back.

you may have pitied yourself for being rejected, again, but everything Bond said is also true.

I've heard it said that "ultimately< we get what we deserve in life"=== MEANING we get what we put up with ,i.e., what we accept. OR what we demand and earn...

all of it, at some level, is a choice WE make.

I think it's time you make a different choice, don't you?

[sandi2]

How you doing Luke?

[25yearsmlc]

he's out here in the USA now, so hopefully we'll connect.

FYI

[LuckyLuke]

Hi all,

Here in sunny CA now, staying with my MIL, and my nephews are here also, so busy all the time. Hope to meet or at least talk at length with 25 -

Will be traveling to the Midwest next week, so my presence here will be spotty probably then. Back next Friday night, when life finally becomes normal with no travel.

I am doing not too badly Sandi, thanks. It is both a relief and sad to be away from W and D, with only the occasional email just now. Hope to learn something while I am here.

Yes, Gabbysmom23, I feel like the approval seeking and punishment avoiding kid sometimes - hope to change that.

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

Hi all,

Spoke nearly 2 hours with 25, who has worked team at EE many times - looking forward to EE even more now - the only question is now what to tell my MIL and her boyfriend - why am I going to Philly?

Being away from home may open an opportunity, but am I not sure I see it. For example, we communicate mostly by email now (may Skype with daughter), which might let me say things I would not, or would say differently than, in person. Do you see any such advantage or opportunity? Perhaps it is just "you are away from home and communication will be even lousier".

Have started a so far good book recommended by my C - "reinventing your life".

Luke

[needgrace]

so glad you caught up with 25. she is so so amazing, isn't she? good luck LL. i am cheering for you.

[MrBond]

What have your emails to your W been like?

Definitely Skype your D. That shouldn't even be a "maybe".

[LuckyLuke]

Hi Mr. Bond, needgrace,

Yes, it was very good to talk with 25. I don't recall talking on the phone with someone for that long since decades.

Yes, will Skype my D. She gets home before my W, at 16.30, which matches my leaving to work (07.45 CA time) very well.

Here is the (names removed) first email to my W. Describing it seems harder than just posting:


Hi -

I hope your tooth is now fixed, or at least on the way to being so. That was a rotten thing.

You have a number of mail items here: some bathing suits from a textiles place in England, a blue speedo bathing suit, a card saying you have won two flights in the US on delta, and "a guide to elegance". I can take pictures of them and send over if you like.

Nephews... are nice to have here. They enliven the place, also with their guitars (Nephew2 has a bass now), and Nephew1 plays well already. We are going to Watson's drugs tonight.

I had a large ... horse trainer woman next to me on the flight from Stockholm. She said "I like to eat". She'd been in Uppsala, where some large stable is.

Next week (my boss) and I will be in Ohio, ...

I have another gift certificate from Amazon. Is there something we could use?

Have you heard from (school D applied to)? Wasn't Monday the deadline?

***

I usually feel emotionally distant in my mails, which stinks. Not sure how to improve them.


Luke

[MrBond]

Skype with your son too.

The quickest way to not be emotionally distant is to just ask her "how are you doing?". Ask about her day and not just superficial stuff. Talk ABOUT her.

[25yearsmlc]

my words are in various shades of blue, til I know which one works best. MACH1 said this helps him read what I write when I don't use Red, because he's color blind, so I'm experimenting.

Anyhow, Luke, your words are in regular print if that helps...

Hi Mr. Bond, needgrace,

Yes, it was very good to talk with 25. I don't recall talking on the phone with someone for that long since decades.


Well that's amazing to me and makes me a little sad for you. But You can change it.

On nearly a weekly basis, I speak in depth with at least one friend and one sibling, (but then, I have a lot of siblings). Friendships take investments of time and genuine disclosures of things that matter to each.

If the person you are speaking with is someone you consider a friend, try asking them how they feel about where they are in their lives.

Last month several DB women and I had dinner. THAT^^ question was pretty much THE question we discussed all night.

It's heavy for mere aquaintances, but I find even then, frequently, people WANT to talk to someone about how they are in their "real lives"...how they really feel about what direction their life is taking, what time has been wasted, changes needed, etc.

Luke, you are a perfectly fine conversationalist when questions are asked of you.

I was in an information seeking mode when we spoke, and that's how it should have been. But others will want you to ask them questions, and have lots of give and take. From what I can tell, you know how to do that. At least with people other than your wife.

e.g., "How'd did they like the place they last lived/visited? What specifically?" Asking about hobbies and how you met her and what your kids are like are all pretty safe questions. Same for the cool place you live. If it seems safe, ask them the "real" questions about how they feel about their lives and careers and relationships, etc. Remember to share, too.

Ask questions AND follow up questions...people usually respond well to that.


Yes, will Skype my D. She gets home before my W, at 16.30, which matches my leaving to work (07.45 CA time) very well.

Here is the (names removed) first email to my W. Describing it seems harder than just posting:

LUKE =
this letter is one DRY letter. I'd write it this way to someone I was trying NOT to connect with, which I understand doing with your wife.

But if this is standard and has been for a really long time, it's a problem. It comes off as sterile and "all business." There is not one single statement about how YOU FEEL about anything or anyone.

Check it out...


Hi -

I hope your tooth is now fixed, or at least on the way to being so. That was a rotten thing.

Luke, I Guess you feel compelled to comment again on^^ this. Not sure why...at least you didn't assume responsibility for it again or apologize again...


You have a number of mail items here: some bathing suits from a textiles place in England, a blue speedo bathing suit, a card saying you have won two flights in the US on delta, and "a guide to elegance".I can take pictures of them and send over if you like.


This^^ is all completely sterile and factual. Is there even a reason for telling her about her mail or were you trying to make conversation? B/C if it is to try to make conversation, DON'T do it this way as you come off as boring, which you are NOT.

Don't force her to discuss very mundane things...just tell her she left some things back there, ask if she wants them. Let her ask for details.

Nephews... are nice to have here. They enliven the place, also with their guitars (Nephew2 has a bass now), and Nephew1 plays well already. We are going to Watson's drugs tonight.


"nice to have here" is ALMOST you saying how you feel. Say WHY it's nice to have them here. How does it make you feel? Are you excited about going out tonight? Or amused by their choice, or what? I can't tell if the Drug store is a music place or a pharmacy stop.

Did you play with them? Do you LIKE their music or feel close to them? Say how you FEEL....it's alright. It's how we connect to each other.

Disclosure builds intimacy...



I had a large ... horse trainer woman next to me on the flight from Stockholm. She said "I like to eat". She'd been in Uppsala, where some large stable is.


Okay this^^^ could be REALLY funny and I assume you meant it to be, but there's no punch line. I mean, you begin strong and then peter out. Like you are not sure she'll find it funny. Who cares? If it is, it is. And if you think it's funny, it is.

I'm Curious, did you mean it to be funny or was it just a quirky observation?


Next week (my boss) and I will be in Ohio, ...

I have another gift certificate from Amazon. Is there something we could use?

Have you heard from (school D applied to)? Wasn't Monday the deadline?

***

I usually feel emotionally distant in my mails, which stinks. Not sure how to improve them.


Luke

You feel distant b/c you sound that way too. Telling her where you'll be next week without a single follow up comment tells her only your GPS spot. Not if you are happy about it, or dreading it or tired of it.

Say how you FEEL about something. Anything...like With the big woman on the plane, sitting next to you, who "likes to eat", you could have said you felt like a sardine. "Worried she'd take my food if I got up...felt competitive about a food shortage"...whatever.

Even though it's a joke, it's a statement of how you FEEL. Makes for less distance.

Shared laughs and humor, build intimacy.

Are you meeting any people at work and ENJOYING the work or finding it stressful or worrisome about a looming deadline?

Or do you feel grateful that things are going so well and you enjoy your work?

Mention it now and then.

And of course, ask her how she is doing OTHER than dentally...

if you feel your w has disconnected from you so much that it's pursuit, and arguably it is

then ask more about the kids or ASK THEM more.

How are they feeling about their majors, so far? Your d's new school, is she excited and or nervous?

Does she have any friends going there? What will she join so she can make more friends?

how's your son doing in college? Liking his major? Changing it?

Has he met any interesting females?? Ask your children personal questions....they are your children. At some level they may feign annoyance *(They might even mean it) but they crave their parent's interest, I promise.

As for why you are going to the Essential Experience workshop, well, they won't. They MIGHT ask you why you are going to Philadelphia. So IF anyone asks, say it's for a workshop.

I doubt they'll ask more follow up. If they do, it's for communication (tax deductible, btw, at least in America)

and will help you at work, which is true.

If they get freaked out for some reason, tell them that once they're used to being naked in public, the rest is easy...

yes Luke, I'm kidding...and yes, you should tell them when you are kidding.

Otherwise you do sound disconnected.

From speaking with you last weekend, I can tell you that there is NO reason for you to feel disconnected

in the sense that you are not able to converse intelligently. You are. Plus, you get most of my jokes....


clearly a superior mind...