I don't know what has come up to the bb, but I'm buried in posts to check up... totally crazy day, I guess.
H came home late last night (nearly 7 pm) and very tired. I suggested we went to a movie, but he preferred to do it today. He had dinner and went to bed around 8 pm. Before falling asleep I asked him how his new employee (the one that was supposed to substitute OW and her daughters starting last Fri) was doing. He muttered rather reluctantly that the employee in question never turned up. He was going to call her today to see what had happened. I refrained from asking if OW or her daughters were still there. We fell asleep.
At 4 am I woke up in the middle of a nightmare. In my dream, H and I were staying at a hotel somewhere and he tells me that he is going to have dinner with a male colleague. I smell something fishy and ask him to take me with him to the dinner so I can meet this person as his wife. He mutters and says "OK, dinner at eight. I'm going for a walk" At seven, I'm all dressed up and ready to go when H tells me (again muttering: he does that when he lies) that he already went to dinner with that guy. I get mad and storm out. My marriage is over for 2 reasons: he did not include me, he lied to me again. At this point I wake up in a sweat and H is hugging me.
He asked what's up, but did not ask for particulars when I said I had had a nightmare. We checked the time and as it was still early we continued our new early morning routine... Then, we snuggled until 6 am when he got up to fix breakfast for both and I went to work. During our quiet time, I casually mentioned I hoped we would have finally time to talk today... He said yes in a very matter of fact way.
The upshot of it is I need to have that talk. I need clear and defined goals for our R, and I need to be included in whatever is going on in his life. And that includes his office. I am not ready to go back in time to the phase of doubts, fears, ASSumptions and snooping. I have waited and given him time to readjust to being back, but I am not going to wait forever. He has a chance of making our M work, and I will meet him half way. Or three quarters of the way, if I have to. But I refuse to grope for my way in the dark. This is not a question of whether OW is in the picture at all; to me it is a question of having the cards up in the open in our R.
OK, get the 2x4s ready if you want... Shiny, do you have any other insight as to my dream? Am I missing some major psychological point?
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
No 2x4 from me. I think your dream is telling you that you need something to work with (chew on, if you want fish speak). He agreed to talk so this should be okay.
Why not start by saying, "H, I don't want either one of us to be overwhelmed by this, so how about we limit this convo to a half hour and then head to the movies?"
Or whatever time limit you think both of you can handle. That way, he'll know that this issue is not going to be something that goes on ad nauseum and ruins both of your days.
Maybe just jot down a couple things to ask? And then button your lips and allow the dust to settle before you speak or ask more questions? Or use the technique that we were taught last summer?
Our MC taught us a technique that works for R talks really well... if you already know this one, then you can ignore it and read on.
Since you have the questions, you agree to be the interrogator and he agrees to be the detainee (for lack of a better word). You may only ask questions, and he may only answer them. When you are finished, you signal the end by asking the question, "Is there anything else I need to know about this?" And then you switch places--he becomes the questioner and you become the questionee until he signals the end with his final question: "Is there anything else I need to know?"
It works well for a variety of reasons--the primary one being that it forces each one of you to listen. Do you and your H do the thing that mine and me did? While you're supposedly listening, you're preparing your rebuttal (which means you're not really listening)?
This method is a great obstacle to that process. Since you're only asking questions, you aren't preparing a response. Since he's only answering them, he can't do the same.
JMTCW.
Big hugs! Go YOU!
Bruce
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Sounds like you are doing good.. He needs to follow through with the talk sonce he is the one that brought it up. Congrats on the in the mornings... Must be wonderful.. Have a great evening..
Honesty, sincerity, tenderness and trust. A little less time for the rest of the world, And more for the two of us. Kisses each mornin, I love yous at night, Just like it used to be.
No 2 x 4s from me today. Just do your best to make the talk comfortable and non-threatening. See, he's afraid to tell you things - ostensibly because he doesn't want to hurt your feelings - but really because he wants to protect HIMSELF from the pain of dealing with your pain and his guilt.
For my H and I, the secret of reaching that place where we could discuss painful things was for ME to not react emotionally or defensively, so he would realize it was "safe" to tell me things, and for him to recognize that I didn't need or want to be "protected" from things, and he was just protecting himself. To do this, though, you have to bite your tongue, control your tears, swallow your pride, and be prepared for what you may hear. Hard for a lot of us LBSs who dealt with things by sticking our heads in the sand
Your talk sounds like a plan to me. If you feel it will get you closer to your goals then do it.
I like the suggestion of asking and answering questions. I have been told that would work well too. Of course, I haven't talked R with my H for a long time, so I haven't tried it.
I also like the idea of limiting the time and scope of the talk. In fact, I had been told the question and answer exercise should be done with a five minute limit going back and forth for a set period of time (say 30 minutes total).
And while you think this time is difficult, always remember to put yourself in your H's shoes. He is trying to rid his life of the OW, living with the guilt of his infidelity and the hurt he caused you and your D, reorganizing his business, and reclaiming a spot in your life.
I am not saying that he doesn't deserve everything on his plate right now, but on the stress scale he is right up there at the top. Hence the need for extra sleep. Although, going to bed early seems to have an added benefit of for you two!
You don't need to give him and sympathy, but empathy make go a long way about now.
He is home with you, and tackling the R talks can be viewed as an ongoing process for you both. It will probably never end and probably shouldn't.
(Now if I can only do this when my H comes home!)
totite
"Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative..."
My husband and I have this weird trickly (my word) talks, and they seem to work the best. It involves us talking about something completely unrelated to OR, and suddenly he says something about an issue we've had for a long time, or I do, and he responds, and this way, slowly, things are worked through.
It's when I try to squeeze the process into one BIG R TALK, he seems to shut down. Big R talks are my way, not talking is his way, but slow, careful resolution is OUR way.
Keep your eyes open to what he is trying to show you with actions - sometimes I think guys try to communicate intentions by doing, rather than saying, so if you do have a big talk, open yourself up to not just the "right" verbal responses from him, but subtle changes in his behavior he's making because of what YOU said, and how YOU feel.
Just a thought... Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Hi Opt - Just checking in with you - no 2x4 from me either. You've gotten great suggestions for your R talk. Keep yourself in check - which can be impossibly hard at times, and look forward to the movie afterwards. (((Opt)))
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hey OPT. How was your evening last night? Hope all is well..
Honesty, sincerity, tenderness and trust. A little less time for the rest of the world, And more for the two of us. Kisses each mornin, I love yous at night, Just like it used to be.
He came home around 7 pm again, mostly dead tired (he is covering now for the guy who replaced him when he was gone and it was his first day doing so: he was very harassed). I had dinner ready for him and we sat to watch a DVD ("The Italian Job") then watched the news until 11 pm.
He was snuggly but not communicative, so after her class on Man Speak 101 by Dr. Kevinlost of the online Yahoo University, this straight A student did not bring the topic up. My homework specified clearly 'give ample opportunity to talk but do not press the issue.' So that is what I did.
Of course I paid for it with another nightmare. This time my H was having a heart attack and I was in a panic and could not even find the aspirin, let alone the phone to call 911. Very NOT ME, btw. While I am rushing all over the place, a Russian man and woman show up to visit (I do not know them from Adam, at all this) and help me to get H to the ER. While we are waiting, the girl (really nice) explains to me that H has been courting her and she had no idea he was married but that things had not gotten anywhere and she was not even interested... She drives me back home and we are really good friends... Then I woke up but this time H was not hugging me.
Well, it was close on 5 am so I guess I woke him up... He got up early to go to work and said he'd be really busy today. Before he left, he said ILY. I like bright green mornings... at least their beginning...
I kind of miss the days when I did not have dreams...
Shiny, where are you when I need Dr. Jung? I much prefer finality to causality...
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Then, we snuggled until 6 am when he got up to fix breakfast for both and I went to work. During our quiet time, I casually mentioned I hoped we would have finally time to talk today... He said yes in a very matter of fact way.
