It's not really a talk to change anything unless he says No Way Am I Paying For That.
It's a talk to include him in the process.
How can he improve his parenting interactions if he's not included?
I agree, in fact if you bring this up, it really has little to do with your fears about the situation (poor wording on my part) but your concerns about how difficult it may be on him. That way you encourage him to share any worries he has. Be supportive of him, not ask him to be supportive of you.
Whether you bring it up or not is something you can judge better than us. But there'll be other opportunities for this, if this situation is not appropriate.
H: 38 xW: 38 M: 16 T: 18 S: 9 BD: 2/2012 W moved out 4/2012 D: 11/2012
Ok I appreciate the advice... will see him Sunday so will broach the subject then, from a supportive place. Not a stressed place. labug, you're right I need to afford opportunities for change.
Interactions with H via text. He says he's been busy. In any other relationship I have, I would ask, 'really? what have you been up to?' But I ignore the obvious with H for fear of being nosy. I've asked before and either received no answer or vague answers. But that was awhile ago, how often does LBS test the waters for volunteered info? What does everyone else do?
DDs and I are going on trip next week. H offered to take us to airport today and asked if I needed him to check in on cats. This set off all kinds of alarms in my head, what's he going to do in my house? I've thought about it all day and remembered that I have nothing to hide. And that I can't build trust in H if I don't give him opportunities to be trustworthy. Really out of my comfort zone but I think I'm on board with allowing him to come over when we're out of town.
Then he mentioned trying to get out of work to see dds Saturday and I replied that we had plans and would actually be in his city for documentary movie I'm taking dds to. H's department just finished a year long remodel so he invited us to stop by to see the finished job. Another internal panic. WHY would he invite me (and kids) to his place of work? It's so humiliating to see all the guys H works with and I don't know what they know about our sitch! I feel like I'm going to feel like a fool. But I don't believe that's H's motivations, he is excited about the station and wants to show it off. And he was always proud of his family too whenever we came to visit. But things are different!! I replied with enthusiasm.
On Saturday, should I ask the obvious before we show up? Is it too awkward for me to come visit at work? Or act as if & bring treats and have it be like it was a year ago? (Then we'll leave & everyone will think to themselves 'oh, that poor delusional woman who thinks she still has a marriage...' okay that's me feeling sorry for myself, but it's weird!)
Don't read too much into it. Just act "as if". Its nice that H wants to share with you. Take treats if you like, just don't overdo things. Don't exagerate anything. Act natural. Be gentle and speak quietly, but be upbeat....(does that make sense?). Its no-one else's business what you and H do anyway. Not everyone acts miserable and unhappy, even if they are having troubles.
Man I need a lot of reminders this week. Thanks GB. We'll just go & be nice and not mindread. I just can't tell, with MC starting & everything, if he's just being nice out of obligation or if he genuinely wants to be nice. I guess it doesn't change my response either way though.
Apparently there really is an app for everything - I downloaded the 5 LL app on iphone last night. That was our homework from MC. I've already read but don't know if H has or not. H is supposed to read 5 LL & think of how it relates to dds LL, since he stated that was his intent with MC.
So I did the test on the app then you can email it to your partner & request they do the test & send to you. I felt daring & sent to H this morning. I know it's pursuing, but it was our homework so figured it wasn't out of bounds. Will see if he actually replies.
I've had a bit of a light bulb moment about keeping the road home smooth. First, both kids showed real personal growth today and I'm immensely proud of them! And it made me sad that I couldn't share this with H because we don't have that openness anymore. It finally dawned on me that I can offer to share and that will allow him the opportunity to come to the table and show his effort too.
So I sent a text: Girls made me super proud today. I'd like to share with you if you have time to talk some time. lmk.
He replied: ok. I got your email (post about 5 LL earlier). I've been incredibly busy this week but I'll make some time this weekend to reply to it.
So whether he does it or not, whether he calls about girls or not, I feel very good about reaching out and offering to share. We'll see him a bit this weekend at station visit and briefly on Sunday, so there will be opportunities to talk.
I've had a bit of a barrier in my head about rebuilding trust and openness and I realized yesterday when H offered to check on house/cats while we're gone, that I have to create opportunities for earning trust in order to rebuild. Before it felt like laying a booby trap, but something flipped in my brain and I don't feel that way today. Maybe because my motivations have changed. I'm not looking or affording chances expecting him to fail. I'll continue to give the chances and his results have no personal effect on me because I feel good about what I'm doing.
Feel like I've just wrestled something in my head and WON!
Before H, but when you were having difficulties, how would you deal with talking to H? The reason I ask is your text could be perceived as putting pressure on him, especially if you did this before BD. On the other hand if you avoided before, this is a good change.
I like how you are doing what you think is right, with no expectations. Sounds like a good attitude.
H: 38 xW: 38 M: 16 T: 18 S: 9 BD: 2/2012 W moved out 4/2012 D: 11/2012
hey azguy, my text about inviting conv about girls? Before, I shared and shared and thought it was my responsibility to keep him informed about his kids and I resented he never came to the table or showed interest. He had it pretty easy, hardly even had to really ask how was your day. I laughed, I cried, it was my world managing our kids with what I thought was his support. And he did support, but didn't engage. So me offering to share but requiring him to meet me in the middle was a personal best. And he didn't call to see what his kids did or probably even remember. Oh well, it doesn't stop me from being proud and my parenting won't be distracted in anger towards H. I'm letting it go now.
Or were you referring to my 5 LL email to him? That, too, we didn't talk about our R at all before. So challenging him to address actual R issues even if not to be in R with me, but to learn about himself is a change too.
I saw him briefly when getting a tour of station today. We were there for less than 10 minutes and he had a call and had to go. Actually it was a relief. Short and sweet. He texted afterwards 'thanks for coming by. i really enjoyed seeing you.' It was group message with kids too, so I'm not thinking that was meant for me. But he was gracious and a good host and I was glad for the tour.
azguy, I wanted to ask you specifically - you've described your overworking as contributing to your situation and that's a common theme with my H as well. He works and works and gets all his rewarding feelings from his job. I've wondered before if he even notices how unbalanced his life is. I'm beginning to think that nothing will ever change in his perception and it will forever prevent him from recommitting to our R. What finally happened that made you see you lost focus on your family?
It was the text offering to share about the girls that I was asking about, sorry to be vague. So you're changing it up, encouraging him to engage more. I like that. In fact, I think that is a great 180 from "dumping" on him, as I remember you saying you did occasionally before. If you don't say anything, that would probably send the wrong message too. But telling him you'd like to share positive things with him, to the extent he wants to hear them, is brilliant. positive, a 180 from before, and still engaging him. Not tat you need my approval, but sounds great!
Regarding the work imbalance, it really took me being alone in my house, alone after a work accomplishment to realize that part of what made my work rewarding was to have a family to share it with. I told myself I worked hard, but didn't realize how corrosive it was to my marriage until it fell apart. I though she was supportive of me working hard. I didn't realize that she just felt like she couldn't speak up for herself until it was quite bad.
But regarding your situation, one thing my DB coach said stuck with me on this topic. She said men often feel worth something in a marriage if they are valued for their career. In that regard, your going to your H's workplace helps bolster that. Maybe you could follow up with some kind words about enjoying seeing where he worked (a little flattery never hurts). You might begin from that point when you talk to him about a better balance. In fact, if you can just praise him anytime he chooses a better balance, that might be more important than any suggestions in this area. (Great you could be here for D. I know how crazy work is right now, etc.) For all you know, he doesn't really enjoy working that much, but desperately wants to please his superiors. That was one of my problems, that it took me a long time to admit to myself. Now might be the wrong time, but it would help to understand why he works so much.
H: 38 xW: 38 M: 16 T: 18 S: 9 BD: 2/2012 W moved out 4/2012 D: 11/2012
