A New Beginning - after 2 years...

[JuneReN]

kg-congrats on job and I know the feelings you are dealing with (leaving the babies).

You are so strong. Somedays, I think, thanks H, I am 47 with no job, have to finish up and support myself, etc etc. and then I realize the amazing grace and strngth others, such as yourself show and I am all"Alright Ruby, s*ck it up!'

I do know the peace that comes with a decision. It can be sad and hard and bittersweet, but there is also peace.

Hugs

[keep_going]

AS, Bug, IO - thanks for the feedback and support.

AS - I understand why you are confused - I didn't explain myself well and the sitch is a bit more complex than what I originally described.

If I go back to work, I can cover all my expenses and those of the kids (when they are under my custody) except for daycare/school, which in my part of the country is insanely expensive.

My H can refuse to help pay for childcare and instead offer to take care of the kids while unemployed. He could then just sit back, stop looking for a job and become a stay-at-home dad, which he once told me he would not be opposed to. In addition, he can legally then ask for child support and alimony from ME.

So on top of my own expenses, I'd end up working to support not only my kids, but him and OW (when she is in town) while they raise my children. My salary could not even begin to cover all of that while paying for rent for myself to live in a decent and safe neighborhood.

Do I believe he would do that? I am not so sure, but legally, he could... I also don't believe he will become a dead-beat dad. He adores his children and is truly a good father.

In addition I don't think this has anything to do with MLC. My H has been a firm WAH from the get-go and from day 1 he just didn't want to pay me any alimony. He thought we could just split the kids' expenses 50/50 and go our separate ways. He just doesn't see the value of me staying at home with the kids if he had to support me.

I have always worked and been completely self-sufficient financially and he simply doesn't see why that should change and why he should have to support me if we are no longer together. He just wants his money and move on. It's that simple.

My L, my parents and I believe he is simply playing chicken to get me back to work so he doesn't have to pay alimony and that as soon as I get a job, he will miraculously find one shortly thereafter. I could be wrong and time will tell (very soon).

I also believe that he may actually already have something up his sleeve. My H cares too much about money and I know it's mind-reading, but he has been extremely calm about this whole thing. He has expressed his stress over a few emails, but the fact that he went to Thailand and that he continues to fly up north every other weekend to see OW tells me that he is still not feeling a rope around his neck.

Finally, most of my H's family is also completely supportive of me and are appalled by Hs behavior (and they don't even know how dire our financial sitch is yet...) My BIL has told me repeatedly that he will never let H leave me out on the streets and to immediately let him know if H tries to. The amount of family pressure H would get if he decided to not pay for his share of kids' expenses would be tremendous. In addition, I am not so sure that OW would see it kindly either, but that is their problem...

During a 4-way meeting with our Ls back in Feb., H said that if we ran out of cash, he would borrow money from his mom and/or his sister. We also have a couple of credit cards with very high credit limits (we had always been extremely responsible with money and were fortunate to had never been in difficulties before). So there are ways for him to cover his portion and he has not been opposed to it until now.

So part of the reasoning behind the doc. is to see H's reaction. If he completely disagrees and says he cannot help with kids'expenses, then he will show something different than what he has claimed all along.

I'll then tell him that I'll give-up my lease, move in with my parents and continue staying at home caring for S2 and D4 while he is unemployed. That we'll also need to take D4 out of preschool and enroll D5 in public school in Sept. and that I'll stay at my parents as long as necessary. If I did that, I would certainly incur less debt than if I have to go back to work and pay for everything (and also support him).

Do I plan to really do that? I don't think that is in the best interest of my kids, so no, but he doesn't know that. In addition, if I end up homeless, that will also not look good for him and it would bring him even more problems with his family.

Sorry for the long explanation. These are not easy matters and in the end, a lot of this is speculation and hunches and I am just trying to do everything to protect myself from the worst possible scenario.

Does that make sense?

[keep_going]

That's a pretty good dose of shame you laid on him right? "Them's fightin' words" as Yosemite Sam would say.

Given his status right now maybe it's not a good idea to share how you're feeling or your disappointments in him?

If you really want to focus on having a good co-parenting relationship for the sake of the kids, I'd vent your feelings here, rely on your lawyer to handle the unpleasantries, and keep things with H friendly and factual.

I say that knowing how painful it is, because you have every right to be super mad at him. The guy left you with very young kids, hasn't been working, and has been spending money on vacations with OW, it's reprehensible behavior, it really is. The anger has to come out, I think it just needs to go somewhere else unless you're completely ready to write him off.

Accuray

Acc - You got me. I have nothing to say except you are absolutely correct and that was wrong on my part. I realized it after the fact.

I had been pretty supportive when H opens up about his job search efforts, but I blew it here.

As for if I am ready to write him off, I am not sure where I stand right now. I have lost all hope for R at this point, but I do still have feelings for him. I do feel sick and tired of being sick and tired, you know, but not sure if I am ready to throw in the towel. And regardless of where I am at emotionally, I should have not given him a guilt trip. Period.

Yes, I deserve the 2x4... and thank you - you always give them oh, so gently.

[Accuray]

Re the financial summary, if I read it correctly you fear that H is playing "financial chicken" with you.

i.e. if he gets a job and you don't have one, his support burden will be greater.

Therefore, it's to his advantage to "sweat you out", see if he can force you to get a job, in which case he'll have a lower support obligation, particularly if you out-earn him.

Your worst fear is that you'll get a job, he'll start being a stay-at-home dad, then go after you for support, and as long as he doesn't move in with OW, he can ride your gravy train and spend the money on OW.

That whole landscape really sux and makes me very frustrated for you. Have you discussed the situation with your lawyer and what did they say?

I agree it seems odd that he's been unemployed for this long and still can afford to fly around -- either he has money he's not telling you about or he's running up a lot of debt right? Either way it's probably to your advantage to separate yourself financially so you're not responsible for half of his debt.

That happened to a friend of mine, her husband ran up a ton of credit card debt without her knowledge and then left. She ended up having to pay all of it back because he could not / would not and she was jointly responsible.

So sorry, this situation is so frustrating to read. The silver lining here is how quickly you got a job you're happy with! That's got to make a point with H right?

I know here if I put 3 kids in daycare my W's salary wouldn't cover it, and she makes good money! Are you going to have to pay for 40 hours per week daycare or do you have someone who can help out?

Accuray

[keep_going]

Acc - Your summary is right on the money. I wish I could be as concise with words as you are - lol...

If my H knows me well, H'll know that I will play chicken with him only up to a point. Once the kids' well-being is in play, I will back down. So he might call my bluff that I wouldn't just move in with my parents indefinitely... Yet it's the only card I can play to try to protect myself from being left hanging with all the expenses after I go back to work and incur more debt. We'll see.

My L agrees that it sux because as long as he doesn't have a job, I don't have much of a leg to stand on...I cannot force him to do anything.

She told me: "As your L I will tell you that if you go back to work now, it will most likely benefit your H in the D negotiations. Yet, I cannot tell you what to do - only you know the extent and seriousness of your financial situation and if and when you need to support yourself and your kids."

As for the CCs, we always had joint ones - I never felt the need to have separate ones and trusted H completely. Since DB, I took myself off all of them except one, which has had zero balance for years.

We just started using it a month ago to pay for school tuition and health care. I monitor it daily and H doesn't charge anything to it - all his expenses go to his personal CCs now. So yes, it is highly likely H may have cash stashed away or has incurred a lot of debt on his own, but that is now out of my control.

Funny thing is that H's L expressed concern to my L that I would start living it up and charging like crazy, but then again, he doesn't know me. Since H left, I have gradually reduced my discretionary spending to pretty much zero when H lost his job. It's just the right thing to do for my family.

I chose not to take my name off of this card, in case I have any emergency - I needed a place to borrow money from and after I stopped working when S2 was born, new CC offers stopped coming in for me. As soon as I figure out this agreement with H and start working, I will take my name off that one as well.

Fun stuff, isn't it?

[Accuray]

Not fun at all! It's awful! It just drives me crazy that the institution if marriage that is designed to provide stability, support and joy can end up like this.

Did your lawyer comment on the likelihood of your worst case scenarios? Did she think your H would be able to get support?

I also don't want to let it fly under the radar that you've been out of the workforce for quite a while and just went out and got the job you wanted right away -- that's darn impressive!

[labug]

She is an impressive woman!

[NLW]

KG,

Your situation of financial chicken sounds very familiar to me.

I don't want to be a downer, but I felt worried when I saw this:

"I also don't believe he will become a dead-beat dad. He adores his children and is truly a good father."

I would have staked my life on my STBX providing for his children - whom he always ADORED.
He was a fantastic father.

Now, well, he hasn't paid a cent for months. We don't have enough money for food and essentials. And it doesn't matter to him.

He is truly the anti-H.

Just saying, don't hang your hat on anything to do with how he used to be.

I hope he maintains his character, but please, don't base ANY of your decision-making on the premise that he will.

[BFloat]

I know it's hard going back to work and leaving your children. Believe me.. I know. But I try to remind myself that I am not the first woman to have to do it. I know this doesn't lessen the challenges.. But you will do great.

[bustingout]

Hi KG,

just catching up...I cant post now but will tomorrow. You are one hellava lady :-)