Becoming Patient Man

[PatientMan]

In response to sandi2's post:

...I believe in tough love in most every case. But every case can't go dark, b/c of children in the home. But the H can still detach himself from his wayward wife. If he doesn't detach, he stands an excellent chance of repeating the terrible experience.....if they stay together.

I tried to read most of your thread to see where you are. It seems pretty clear to me that your W has been getting the best of both worlds. Oh I know she cries at times, and I know you still love her, but if I could open her up and allow you to see inside her mind/heart, I think you would be shocked to see how much she's changed from the girl you M. When a woman gets involved (emotionally or physically) with any man who is not her H, it does something to change her. First off, she knows it is wrong, and therefore, she begins to hide it. That is just the beginning of the terrible deceit.

I am not sure how it all came about, but just looking at most of the page on this thread, it seems pretty certain where you are currently in your MR. She wants to be taken care of financially, and you being an honorable man, will support your children, but she isn't quite upfront with you.....is she? It's b/c one act of deceitfulness can easily lead to another.

You have been confused over being friends b/c she doesn't treat friends as bad as she treats her H. True, and let that be a lesson well learned. She wants you for the times she "needs" you. When she wants to cry or vent, or need you for the kids. You keep saying you will "be there for her no matter what", but I think that's where you need to reconsider.

At the rate things are going, she will get whatever she wants in the D, and maybe keep the A ongoing. If so, then she thinks things will continue with the two of you as they have been these past few months. You being there for her.......even though you say she can't treat you just any old way......she has, hasn't she? IDK the whole story, so I could be missing something, but from what I've learned, the WAW who is in an A usually doesn't reach the point of wanting to R as long as the LBH is always there for her. (This is not the same as continuing a R with his children. However, she can use the kids as a tool....as well as he can.) In the successful R that I know about, the W has to recognize or experience loss. That loss has to be tied in with the life she had with her H. If he always makes himself available (being there for her no matter what), then what will she lose that she wasn't willing to give up? And if she began to wonder if she really had lost something from him, she'd just test him to see if it was true. Intimacy? Sure, why not! Just b/c a couple is D doesn't mean they can't still have sex once in a while.

I don't mean to sound cocky or cruel. I just want you to get your eyes open. What you've been doing hasn't worked. You need to do a complete 180. What do you have to lose? Her friendship? It's not a friendship. It's a usedship. frown

Oh, I almost forgot about the question you had asked me from Alan's thread.

I believe the less you explain to the WAW, the better. Remember in DR when Michele talks about the importance of having that mysterious element? Well, if you don't how, just start by not telling her everything. In the past when you both were working on the M, it was important to explain your reasons, etc., but everything.....and I mean EVERYTHING has changed now. You must stop thinking of her in terms of being your W. Besides, it defeats whatever you may wish to accomplish.

Learn to give very vague answers to anything regarding your feelings, actions, details of events (especially if it is asking "who with"), or future plans. wink Keeps life more interesting.

Bare in mind that you are not required to give her answers about anything other than questions regarding her children (and anything else the court so orders). Don't try to see how big a jerk you can be, by giving snide remarks, or with a bitter attitude, etc. At the same time, you can't slide too far the other way and think that by telling her everything is going to help bust the D. It is to your advantage not to reveal everything you know right now.

Drop the rope, end the personal contacts (expect regarding kids only stuff....and keep that to a minimum), and stay away from her. Start a life of your own and be determined that your happiness will not be codependent on her. You have to reach that point before she will ever be serious at R.

So a complete 180 would be:

1) NOT being there for her no matter what (not much at all, under the current circumstances)
2) Further detaching: do you suggest going as dark as possible (given we have 4 Ds)? This week I have begun to go very dark, though I suspect she thinks it's because the D-talk has ramped up when it is really about my disapproval of her actions and decisions (essentially my line has been crossed).
3) No sex
4) If she asks about my recent changes, be vague (even though she may be under the wrong impression as to why I've changed my behavior)
5) No hanging out with her (which is very natural to both of us)
6) Don't ask her about her day/actions/events/feelings

Any other suggestions? You seem to have me/us pretty well pegged, so I appreciate your input...you have no idea. Those 6 are not a problem for me (except maybe #3) and I basically started implementing them last Thursday, so it's really new to her.

Obviously I will be cordial, calm, collected, and confident when interaction is necessary.

Maybe one other clarifying question is: if she does corner me and want to talk to me/vent, do I listen and validate? I am under the impression that I am creating distance and at this point I need to NOT listen/validate, but exit the situation in a polite way. Since DB'ing began, I have been listening/validating as best I can, but since I'm doing a 180 now, it seems like the time to stop. (This may seem an obvious piece of "not being there for her", but I do just want to be clear.)

Is there ever a time I should tell her why I've changed so she understands it isn't the D (divorce), but the other D's: deceit and disrespect? If she forever thinks it's because of the divorce progression then she will be missing the point entirely...maybe. I don't mean I'll start the conversation, but I can certainly see myself saying something along the lines of what I posted before (and below) if I've given her the vague reply several times and she keeps asking:

"Look...you have engaged in behavior that I said was unacceptable to me, and so I don't care what you do any longer. I have decided that I am going to live my life....and I'm going to do what makes me happy."

-PM