first time(&last) & still need help

[nero]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

i am hopeful i've made a new thread and am findable now- thanks snodderly

[job]

How are you doing today? You appear to be having quite a few days of ups and downs. How is your mother?

[nero]

hi anybody-

last nite & this morning seem to be at some new point (psychologically).

I had sane & calm discussion over phone w/ h yesterday a.m. - don't know why or how even "got going" with it- on heels of my sister making me screamie on phone. i didn't really want to pick up or talk to him. As usual - i feel bad to ignore it- so did. I've reached point where when he's with ow - or newly back from visit to her- I just don't want to know him anymore.

Each time it(my own reaction) lasts longer & is stronger - in a very detached sort of way. not anger or quivering insides - just an overwhelming "done" feeling.

just because he's down there- does he honestly think anything he does doesn't impact me. matter of fact one of things we chatted about was that- he wonders out loud to me "why i care" about what he thinks or does??? can he be that nuts (well, yes he is - and it's times of extreme childishness & nuttie comments i actually believe mwd that these guys are in some sort of mental (almost) breakdown state & not sane. he can't be the intelligent guy i knew & think so, well, out of it.) I ask him if he honestly doesn't KNOW that every person he is in contact with is impacted by his actions with regard to them- do i need to tell him that??? that his having sex with someone else is a major problem in our r (& my life) - he grudgingly admits it's a big thing. (????? -

he was surprised to find out i ask questions & want to hear his thoughts FOR ME - NOT HIM - self centered jerk-. i told him I need to make informed decisions. I am deciding which way to take my own life. I told him if she's his big giant LOVE - i have no intention of being some side interest or competing. go have it.

i just don't do competition well. or at all. i'm not going to start now. He's got ow and his stupid cousin - both old lovers hanging onto e-mails and texts - it's such childish crappola (in my book). I am ready i think to just take my hat out of the ring. i'm not even "trying" to convince him to stay- i haven't been - BUT i find the biggest part of me doesn't even want to see him or talk to him. that's what began "talk". me saying why would you even bother coming up here?

I told him I am in process of deciding which way my own life is going to go and that i want to be deciding with full knowledge. (sadly- i ask & need to know what's been going on in our entire past - he says nothing til recent years - he's probably lying) (the sad truth about broken trust huh? - you never do believe anything they say anymore - do you?)

he never ever defends himself or offers anything unless asked specific questions. he's got "nothing" to say ever about anything. much less his feelings in life. it's creepy sometimes- to be such a stone wall.

i think all he's got is fear. afraid if he stays with me he'll be misssssssing sooooo much. afraid of commitment. afraid i'll somehow get allll his money . (yeah- rite, ms "grateful for what i got" and mr "mine - all mine". rite! afraid the grass really is greener on other side of fence- afraid he's selling himself short- all i can figure...

he's made his choices - which force me to make my own. I do not want a life as it is - i want all the fun & love everyone else does. that he's sure he's got with ow- so why come here at all - go have her- and be done with it. i do not see myself settling to be "this" to him and spend next 20-30 years being satisfied with five minute phone call a day and a visit once a month. not very appealing.

he's apparently surprised that this is not an appealing prospect. i guess he thinks he's the only one with a future and ability to choose how to fill it.

he's supposed to come here tomorrow and honestly- i just don't care. i don't feel like being "inspected" for flaws or even the bother of having to look at his face and wonder what he's doing here in my face.

We talked - i asked some questions - he will not just come rite out and say he loves her when asked. wtf (some great love huh? can't even stand up and say it???) (i only ask because it's what he said to her in his text i read - and also to cousin). I haven't read anything else and do not spy- one is quite enough for me to get the lay of the land. cannot torture myself needlessly.

i guess i'd like to hear him commit to something - anything. butch up & honestly talk. maybe not possible for him. maybe that's why he's an attorney- maybe he's allll the show - and nothing inside. maybe every single thing about him and our past life is alllll drama & theatrics - no substance.

anyway- talked about 1 hr - remained calm & sane. no name calling (me) - no profanity (me) - him- responded when asked specific question- did not jump in with anything super duper definitive like he loves me - or can't imagine his life without me in it. he says if she and i died tomorrow - he'd plug along nicely alone. he is not going to live with her or marry her.

says he "cares about me a great deal" "likes to see me and likes my company"??? - I "would be better off financially to stay in his life and have him help with house expenses" - (true and true- BUT...) hE "COULD fix things for me and come and help me if i need it"(??)wtf

ended up with him (basically) trying to convince me why he should come up to nj tomorrow "if nothing else to fix the shelf in living room" (wtf???) I ask if he really thinks i care if the damn shelf falls down (it's a short wall of shelves he built on side of fireplace) . he had some other schlock reason he "should come" - i can't believe this guy. this crappola is not worth the price of a plane ticket.

I can't remember it all - it was alot. he engages me in conversation- asks me questions - then says i talk about my feelings too much. I say he's said a million times he liked that about me becasue he doesn't like to. he says he does like it- we go round and round with that a bit- it's crazy.

he either doesn't want to stay away or cannot bring himself to say it or do it. i don't honestly know why. I can't just bring myself to say it either - "stay away & don't come". i don't prefer living alone- i miss the company & companionship. i don't know if i can feellove for this guy again- he's made a real mess of my heart. i don't think i forgive & forget so easily. he's really deluded about me, him, her, us, everything. i'm not being catty-

at some point he says "what, you mean do something for only someone else" - like it's asking him to fly or something. the surprise. it was something small for someone- I had to say" are you saying it is so surprising and out of your realm of possibility to just do something because it would make someone else happy???? you've heard of that notion - rite?" no kidding- he was surprised and had no answer. it apparently never would have occurrred to him to make that call.

yet he does kind & out-of-his-way nice things for people all the time. no kidding. he can be very kind & giving to his ancient aunt & friends & my mother (eek) and so on-

i can't remember what we were talking about- maybe it was me saying he should have butched up and taken the hard but decent route years ago and finished it with me (or been honest anyway & let me decide) when he realized he was going somewhere dangerous with someone else. let me off the hook rather than lying and lying and allowing me to spend years trying hard & feeling badly & not knowing it had nothing to do with me. it was him (and her). maybe-

i don't know- it was long and exhausting. all it produced was a feeling of confirmation of impossibility of whole thing. i just feel at a loss & too confused & tired to even care properly - no ability to fix - no desire to seriously compete - no hope he "returns to self" - nothin.

woke up today feeling the same. badly - BUT - wierdly divorced from reality & him & "it" all. can't cut the cord - but have no juice to try and reel him in. just existing here in my little life-

all alone- honestly, since my sister died (i'd guess beginning of his affairs)2008 (looking back with 20-20 hindsite) he's been "tuned out" and not there for me in any sense of the word. i'm not a needy person. all i require is the occasional "it'll be okay" when the world is crumbling - and i continue along. my game is endurance in life- it's what i do & can do. in the "crunch" - i can "be there" and do what i gotta and endure...

it's a funny old place to find myself. I do not feel like i have to sell myself or convince him of anything. I don't care if he doesn't like who i am . He said at one point "people change" - yeah , i know. we get older, crabbier, jaded - whatever.

i don't consider lying and infidelity to be "changes of age". i find that to be changes of moral values & worth. did that make sense? chucking your integrity is not a normal "changes with age". imho - THAT is quite something else.

i even understand if it's him panicking about getting old- aches & pains - ditching job (and his identity) - yeah, i understand - SO WHAT??? HIS solution to those issues is just a bad choice.

i know- mlc - but again , in the end - "so what". i've got my own age issues. it's hard for women becasue we're raised pretty much to see our youth & beauty as "what we have". just like men and youth and power and money and job. i get it-

the fact that true love & lifetime commitment are not exciting is not my doing. it's just real life. the fact tht real life is not exciting all the time - is just what it is. nothing to do with me - it's reality.

somewhere in there he mentioned that he thought maybe i was thinking his affair would "blow over' or "run it's course". i never said that- i am more concerned with figuring out what i think of this person whose got no shame or integrity and do i want HIM in my life. that's my current problem. made me wonder if he wonders if it will "blow over".

he spends a hell of alot of time telling me what i'm thinking, and what he "I know you - you think.... blah blah blah". he's always wrong - he assumes i think like him. never in a million years do i or would i.

i'm outta here- worn out and whole day to go . feeling oddly calmish and not too dreadful of seeing him. i think i'm not going to care at all what he thinks any more- for real. something is different. we'll see

wish me luck universe.

i liked someone's quote yesterday that "courage does not always roar like a lion - sometimes it's the small voice saying "i'll do better tomorrow"...

something like that- but how true huh? i hope i've got courage. i would never have imagined spending soooooo long feeling sooooo badly and still facing it - wonder why & how & how long & why again...

[job]

Nero,
Sounds like the conversation went well and you laid all of your cards on the table. He doesn't want to let go of "mom's" apron string. Yes, he does have a lot of fear of the unknown if you two go your complete separate ways. He feels comfortable w/you and right now, the living arrangements suit him because he can't commit to a long term relationship, i.e., marriage, while being married to you.

You are right about one thing, he could set things up so that you wouldn't have to worry about expenses and the repairs on your home if you were divorced. They use all sorts of excuses to return to the home to repair things and it's to see if things have changed since they have been gone. In many instances, it's to see if another man has entered their "territory". They like us to remain right where they left us pre-crisis and unfortunately, that doesn't work because we grow and begin our own travels and life doesn't stand still.

I think what is happening to you is that you are detaching mroe and more every day. I would venture to say that your conversation yesterday will give him cause for concern and he's going to come up and try to "repair" those things around the home and see just where your head, heart and soul are. He senses that you are definitely pulling away and he knows that he's got to do somethng to reel you back in.

Nero, you will be okay. You are a strong, wise and independent woman. Don't beat yourself up too much because mlc is not easy to deal w/on any given day.

Please do something nice for yourself today. You deserve it.

[nero]

hey hi-

i know- i am allover theplace . i'd be lying if i said this all doesn't effect me- just not as gut-wrenchingly as beginning.

you're so nice. the encouragement and saying do something nice. it's making me cry a bit here - pathetic huh? someone being nice is what gets me going. i haven't been able to cry for my sister's death/mlc crisis - which all began july 2008. just doesn't come-

i can tell sometimes i need the release - i guess i'm person who can't do it til it's alllllllll over and i'm out of "crisis- be strong" mode. someday the adrenaline will subside i guess and look out.

i think you might be rite. i feel and told him also- i don't know what i would ask for if i had a geni rite now- i don't want to care about him anymore and i don't (necessarily) want to think of never seeing his face again in my life.

as usual- stuck, but not seeing things as they are as any kind of a "future" that appeals to me. i want more.

i know he's afraid- i think his entire life has been fear based pretty much - love & emotions wise. he's so darn afraid to share himself and his world and his money. like his dumb possessions are why i'm around?!! he is as blind as i was.

he never ever asks where i'm going or where i was- etc. he is careful not to express any interest. does he really think making no demands of me for fidelity exonerates him one bit for his cheating? we don't think so.

have said fifty times- i'm not going be his mother or his buddy- I feel i'm his mate or nothin. it's just who i am in relation to him. i don't think i can get myself to want to be in another role with him. nothing (well, not enough) in it for me.

I hope & think you're rite - that i'll be okay in the end. it sure does a job on one's ego & head . between him and my mother- i wonder that i still have an ego. they don't get it or see it (mom- pre-dementia was always tough cookie & critical. so, nothing new. just about 15 years of her going on - at end of my rope with that also. it's just too much negativity (about me) on a daily basis. he thinks i was scrappy and that's why we fought (sheesh - try constant criticism for breathing even ..

no one- can just plug along in this and have it not affect them - somehow.

back to h tho- sadly- and honestly- i think his guilt inspired his ed - and that is something only his own heart can fix. this is his biggest FEAR i thnk- and honestly also- i don't think he'll ever have the courage to give it a whirl- in case he fails. cripes !! that one, where does one go with that- psychological road block- it's his and i can't fix it or touch it. literally or figuratively. oh man-

we touched briefly on the subject of wanting something that one just can't "make happen" by asking. i.e., his caring for me. make no mistake- he brought it up- i was not saying it- i was not asking for it- as usual, his assumptions. he's soooooooo big into telling me what i think. he's always off base. that's when i told him i do not honestly know what i'd ask for - even if i could. i'm just not sure he is a person i would choose to get to know now, knowing what i do about his character & choices. back to that- what person is this? and do we want to know him? much less like him?...etc

if anyone knows it's just not something one can ask for - it's me. what the heck have i been doing here - quietly dbing ??? if something creeps into his head or heart is only possibility here- is that likely? who but God could say that -

thanks for the kind words tho -

i don't know what he's got to reel me in with. he can buy me trinkets & do chores til the cows come home. if she's around- i'm just probably going to continue not caring more and more. she is something (huge) between us- if he can't see that- he is not too brite...

i still feel today like i just don't give a damn any more- whether he comes here and likes what he sees, hears, wants to inspect me for yet more flaws or imperfections - WHAT????? I'M done with that. i'm just me- who i've always been. I don't even want to change- i never tried to change him- i hate feeling like a fraud.

oh well huh- again, thanks for your kind words and encouragement. this sure is the longest and most jacked up thing i've ever encountered in my (feeling longer every day) 62 years.

i'm glad as heck i think i've been happy for 60 years. if it all blows to hell i've got that- more than alot of people i'd say. (tho i do not allow myself to revisit happy old memories - too painful & hard)

we were at a place in life where we could have (and still could) make it whatever we wanted. we had it all - i mean ALL - COULD have traveled, got new jobs - began some new life entirely - whatever we wanted. how pitiful that his only answer to "trouble" was run back to olden days boy-self & try that again. find the place he was young & in charge and go back.

i'm not ms. philosophy- but even i know we have to go forward - even when we don't like it- can't go back and re-be young us. the wrinkles give us away- no one buys it - oh well....

i've almost dug down to spare room bed- my goal for day- then a long hot bath with a good book and some new bath salts- so yay - i will take that little treat.

and thank you for asking about mom- called dr. office to see if maybe new drug she's taking could dcause 4-6 episodes of such exaggerated hostility & animosity that really- it was just bizarre even for her. so- call in- fingers crossed. no trouble yet today.

thanks again- xxo

[nero]

hey-

just me - here spinning . I read dawn's posts a minute ago - snodderly & miz telling her to focus on herself - try and regain composure. it's true. It amazes me how parallel alot of us seem to be. All of us with our "stages" in this mess of a mlc db process. Me approaching 2 yrs in july, but yrs before that things just "not quite rite". i guess i indulged in alot of denial - (it felt like total trust - could have just been denial & good spin on bad behavior) who knows now? what does it matter tho - huh?

I'm talkng myself out of dreading seeing him- imagining how bad i'll feel - it's insane isn't it?

I just erased my comments about his jokey way of communicating. it used to be funnny - all his picking and blaming me for exotic stuff. (his hair loss, rainy day, etc.) I don't find him funny so much- knowing he actually does blame me for everything wrong in life. I'm going to try to put a good face on and act like it's funny - as i used to - at least be a better sport than i feel like.

will endeavor to dig deep & tap into some inner "charm" and not be "grudging" in my communications.

snodderly & miz were commenting- and someone also in dawn's posts addressing the sitch of her h being "tired" when he talks to her. the pain he feels from guilt making him comatose. i kind of know about that from my mom. i feel badly for her- it can't be nice to have your memory going and constantly feel aware your brain isn't right. and then find reasons (usually goofy) (like people moving your stuff around) to convince yourself you're not nuts. i feel guilty constantly that i can't "do better" and be all lovey dovey. she's said such rotten stuff in the past - it's altered my heart - i must still care because i go & listen and "do it" , but my heart is not giving it willingly and freely. it's a bad bad feeling. it makes me feel badly about myself- i wouldn't mind slipping into a coma sometimes...

i do not know what my h feels. i do not want to be THAT TO him - what my mother is to me. i suspect it. i hate the thought- i'm not blind. it's draining and we do it to ourselves. our guilt over NOT FEELING WHAT WE THINK WE SHOULD. i'm very darn tired of being picked apart and criticized. unlike my mother- i've never been MEAN & NAGGIE or critical. if anything- i'd guess too much the other way. MAYBE HAPPY - dopey doormat. what the heck is too much to do for someone you love and care about? i'm askin ya. (tho my mom & h both have said "you care too much". i'm not drippy & hangie - so wtf??? h also says he likes that i'm "not a clingy woman".

perhaps i'm no challenge. should love HAVE to be a challenge tho. should i have made him "work at it" and be all bitchie and demanding? who the heck can make that call. water under some long gone bridge

I DO GET IT THAT IT'S ABOUT HIM - not me. it doesn't stop every one of us - now or then- i'd think, from re-examining our part in it all. i don't necessarily think i was so bad or full of fault- OTHER THAN being stupidly blind to the possibility of what was going on. i trusted him toooo completely. i believe the lies toooo willingly. that is quite a giant flaw i think. (deluding myself when i shold have been more realistic and suspicious)

anyway- that all is past and is what it is. like the book says- "we all know how we got here- now what are we going to do about it?" i think it's a good outlook- i know it's alot more productive than this looking back junk.

i guess i should be glad he's trying to be pleasant or jokey (his manner of contact). this morning i'm mired in remembering how he kind of ruined our last two trips (to europe )several years back - by being silent and uncommunicative & on his computer in evening- now, knowing what it all was about. what a dope. and you know, it was the time we'd go away together and re-group. we needed those vacations. it feels (this minute) like there will never be a way to go back and forget it all and forgive it all.

it's nothing to him- he was having fun & intrigue. how the heck do you get that in perspective. that your own abject misery (dramatic - but true) over (finally) finding out what the heck is going on in your very life with your very h - it being turned into an episode of jerry springer- by him- for fun - for amusement - entertainment- excitement.

sorry- i've got it bad this morning. wonder what i'll feel when i see him & act normally (hopefully).

just needed to "get it out" of my head. am tired from totally keeping busy every minute of every day. someday when this is all over - one way or the other- maybe i'll be able to sleep & cry for a week or two and just turn normal again.

okay- here'e me hoping i can "do this" for awhile longer and stop being such a whiney jerk- i know it's all probably normal junk to feel & this db process probably wears everyone down to a nub before it's done-

GONNA GO MAKE THAT LIST OF GOOD THINGS HAVE IN LIFE- and there are alot- and work myself back into normal frame of mind- wish me luck- anyone that reads this (or can stand to wade thru my posts) - send up a good vib into the universe - i'll get my antennae up.

(my stinking long posts - it's because after being a legal secretary for 25 years i can type faster than i can think- it spills out- so sorry- but that's my "excuse" du jour for "it all".

wishing my own self luck in behaving like anormal & pleasant person. we can do this

lite on????? big girl panties on - go set hair - find some makeup - take a pill - - - pull some weeds - fortify self for "act" act as if................

[nero]

hey-

just me - here spinning . I read dawn's posts a minute ago - snodderly & miz telling her to focus on herself - try and regain composure. it's true. It amazes me how parallel alot of us seem to be. All of us with our "stages" in this mess of a mlc db process. Me approaching 2 yrs in july, but yrs before that things just "not quite rite". i guess i indulged in alot of denial - (it felt like total trust - could have just been denial & good spin on bad behavior) who knows now? what does it matter tho - huh?

I'm talkng myself out of dreading seeing him- imagining how bad i'll feel - it's insane isn't it?

I just erased my comments about his jokey way of communicating. it used to be funnny - all his picking and blaming me for exotic stuff. (his hair loss, rainy day, etc.) I don't find him funny so much- knowing he actually does blame me for everything wrong in life. I'm going to try to put a good face on and act like it's funny - as i used to - at least be a better sport than i feel like.

will endeavor to dig deep & tap into some inner "charm" and not be "grudging" in my communications.

snodderly & miz were commenting- and someone also in dawn's posts addressing the sitch of her h being "tired" when he talks to her. the pain he feels from guilt making him comatose. i kind of know about that from my mom. i feel badly for her- it can't be nice to have your memory going and constantly feel aware your brain isn't right. and then find reasons (usually goofy) (like people moving your stuff around) to convince yourself you're not nuts. i feel guilty constantly that i can't "do better" and be all lovey dovey. she's said such rotten stuff in the past - it's altered my heart - i must still care because i go & listen and "do it" , but my heart is not giving it willingly and freely. it's a bad bad feeling. it makes me feel badly about myself- i wouldn't mind slipping into a coma sometimes...

i do not know what my h feels. i do not want to be THAT TO him - what my mother is to me. i suspect it. i hate the thought- i'm not blind. it's draining and we do it to ourselves.

our guilt over NOT FEELING WHAT WE THINK WE SHOULD. i'm very darn tired of being picked apart and criticized. unlike my mother- i'm not MEAN &critical. if anything- too much the other way. MAYBE HAPPY - dopey doormat. what the heck is too much to do for someone you love and care about? i'm askin ya. (tho my mom & h both have said "you care too much". i'm not drippy & hangie - so wtf??? h also says he likes that i'm "not a clingy woman".

So - i'm no challenge. (should love HAVE to be a challenge tho.) i guess, realistically - YES. I don't like bitchie and demanding women. i get it- everyone wants what's harder to get? All this is water under some long gone bridge

I DO GET IT THAT IT'S ABOUT HIM - not me. it doesn't stop every one of us - i'd think, from re-examining our part in it all. i don't necessarily think i was so bad or full of fault- OTHER THAN being stupidly blind to the possibility of what was going on. i trusted toooo completely. i believed the lies toooo willingly. quite a giant flaw . (deluding myself when i shold have been more realistic and suspicious) DA QUEEN OF DA NILE

anyway- that all is past and is what it is. like the book says- "we all know how we got here- now what are we going to do about it?" i think it's a good outlook- i know it's alot more productive than this looking back junk.

okay- here'e me hoping i can "do this" for awhile longer and stop being such a whiney jerk- i know it's all probably normal junk to feel - to look back & this db process probably wears everyone down to a nub before it's done-

GONNA GO MAKE THAT LIST OF GOOD THINGS HAVE IN LIFE- and there are alot- and work myself back into normal frame of mind- wish me luck- anyone that reads this (or can stand to wade thru my posts) - send up a good vib into the universe - i'll get my antennae up.

(my stinking long posts - it's because after being a legal secretary for 25 years i can type faster than i can think- it spills out- so sorry- but that's my "excuse" du jour for "it all".

wishing my own self luck in behaving like a normal & pleasant person. we can do this

lite on????? big girl panties on - go set hair - find some makeup - take a pill - - - pull some weeds - fortify self for "act" act as if................

[nero]

I VOTE THAT THIS FORUM ADDS A "RETRO-FIRE" BUTTON THAT ALLOWS US TO GO BACK AND GET RID OF ANY POSTS WE WRITE AND then realize we're being "nuttie" and embarass ourselves in fits of - whatever....

SO - IF I COULD- I'D ERASe the above mess of post - which i somehow sent twice - cripes - as if once wasn't enough (and more than enough)

this too shall pass - huh?

going forward sanely.... and my apologies universe - $hit happens

[albamarie]

NEro-

Your doing well, your thinking hence the excitement, your thinking about a more realistic future w/o H, you should be. He has been honest w/you as well. Short, but to the point he has said, I'm not a R guy the way you need, he also said in there, ow is not leaving my life within the near future, she will remain my sidekick.

I too get it, my M is over, it's what has me making sure I have revisited every effort, every avenue, go crazy, before it is truly over. I only just got that about myself reading you do the same thing, we're going for that last ditch effort and now we see!

I suggest letting your h do what he has to do on his visit, fix, clean, even visit your mom, but by your actions and if you have to say it let him know he is not there for you personally. Your not a couple! I am all or nothing as well, but we can't have either right now, so we just have to act as if I guess.

I'm not going to pretent, laugh at a joke, smile because he's looking, but I am going to treat him as the UPS guy and say hello pleasant and true to myself. What H does will seep into me as I come across info, but I will have to remind myself everyday He's a smoking, stinky, ignorant, self centered, as$, and I deserve more so let it go.

Hard, HELL ya, but maybe if I can start it, I will get it, like smiling when your sad and now your not sad anymore. I already do look at him like, eeww who are you, what is wrong w/me your not coming back.

I am in L w/a memory. Just watched Practical Magic, maybe I should make a brew and dance under the moon light while purring the brew over all of his personals.

[albamarie]

my new thread, I want this one to make a difference, be positive and reflect what I am going to do for me, join me Nero, we need to be better, in spite of them!

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