My painting party wasn't for you, I like blue!

[mizjjd]

H just revealed that I am not showing detachment from him by telling him to move out. He said it makes him feel like I need to let him go, it makes him feel tethered to me, and I should let him go! HUH????

Excuse me? Lol oh good gracious. He is clearly not among us earthlings atm.

Deep breathing, lots and lots of deep breathing Dawn

[tiredndrained]

Lol...what is wrong w them???? I tell my h to leave all the time but he never goes. Im pretty sure he is or was w ow until recently. He doesn't come home at night so clearly he has places to go, right? Some men just leave...why won't ours?

[nero]

hey hi-

i know- isn't it icky how "alike" we all sound - we sure have alot of people "in our boat". now, if we could somehow magically (& happily) float away from the sick, troubled and damaging r we're in and just go -

oh yeah- since i'm in fantasy land at the moment- lets also meet up with another boat full of men our own ages, with lovely personalitits , lovely-giving-understanding- manly- strong- wise- honest - HONEST - HONEST HEARTS AND each of them (oh yeah - dark hair- muscles & strength (just throwin it in here) - magically gravitates to the appropriate one of us - and we sail away forever to a life of fun & bliss & perfect harmony (HARMONY - REMEMBER THAT????) THE end.

whew- felt good- i know- i feel in it with you guys- when you speak i FEEL it on a gutlevel- being in same position.

you know tho- reading your posts - your h's position that you didn't give him enough attention- i think that is his "thing" to hone in on- the thing that he can use to make you feel bad & responsible for allllll this. you know- shove it off on you.

I'm not being ratty- i think it's formula action.

my h has "messy house & too much stuff". you'd think it was in our living space- it's not. my workroom & closet are a mess- i'm a crafter and see potential in everything- it's a mess- nothing at all like the stuff one sees on tv- it's run of the mill living in a house mess - no kidding. (BUT - it's what he uses to make himself not the bad guy. )

I think they all find one thing to hammer away with-

i feel like you- he made me his mother, everything- and here i am- less fun & exciting than ow because i'm soooo familiar, etc. he can't see it- i can - but that doesn't change or fix a darn thing. he thinks he's alllllll in love- i could throw up-

he can't let go of me- i'm gettin pretty sick of no LOVE

just got off phone fromlong long call w him - even saying i would prefer not to hate him totally (but am on way) and also would prefer not to feel any love for him too (am almost there) -

it's like you- it's like dawn - it's like everyone here. soooo does this fortify me that mwd is right and he'll be one of the 75% that regains normalcy someday (and will i give a $hit? ) that's the question- honestly- HONESTLY-

????????????????????????????????/

this woman is exhausted- throw in my poor old (scratchy & offensive) mother slowly going nuttie-pie down the street & many calls & confusions a day- sewn to my back (other sisters are waaaaaay toooooo busy & important to bother with a mere human being who is lonely & scared & ancient & lonely.....

eeeek

[tiredndrained]

Nero...I have two sisters that tell me to leave H and what a jerk, etc. but also too busy to check on me or offer any advice other than H is a jerk and I'm too good for him. I know that...lol but they really don't care about what I am going through or how hard it would be to just pick up with two small kids and no money and start all over. My H home this weekend. I swear last weekend when he was out all weekend he came home in a bad mood and had a fight with OW who he still denies. He never stays home leading me to believe that boat is sinking.

My H also complains about the messy house thing. Yet, he isn't working and is home everyday and never picks up one thing after himself. I'm out all week working, taking my kids after school to activities, and doing my best to keep things as clean as I can. Our dishwasher broke and I have to do all dishes by hand. He doesn't even make the smallest effort to fix anything. Yesterday I painted the trim on my walls because they needed it. He walked in from shopping and then complained it looked like cr--p...Really? I touched them up with white paint. They looked fine. Even kids thought I did a good job. How about thanks for putting in 150% effort when I give no effort. To boot, he hasn't been to a single soccer game my son has played this entire year. Not sure why. He picks and chooses what he does with the kids. How do you not go see your kid play a sport he loves? Not even once?? It gets me so angry that he doesn't even try. Yesterday he layed on the couch while I took the boys off to soccer games. He was still there when we returned. Leading me to believe all the more proof OW done with him. I noticed his pics were off her fb page now too. Hmmm....not that it matters anymore..damage been done.

I'm with Dawn...keep asking him to move out. Keep trying. I still fear one day he will just come to bed with me and be ready to be a family and I will be done. Stupid fear but I spent so much time trying to fix things not sure if that is even an option anymore.

[albamarie]

he made me his mother, everything- and here i am- less fun & exciting than ow because i'm soooo familiar, etc. he can't see it- i can -

My H called me boring yesterday, he said I am falling in line w/his job and everything else, familiarly boring. Oh, but than he said what am I going to do about anything, I'm too old to make any moves of change anything. Wow, sweep me off my feet and kiss my now, not!

I feel like in the end, I am going to find my ground and when I do that will leave him in a tailspin to spend the rest of his old life alone! Since when is he a barrel of fun, he has done nothing but work and stay in style w/the 70's.

Nero- book me on that boat, and I will take one tall, dark, handsome, and sain!

[nero]

hey hi-

gotta respond to a couple of your comments - THEN tell you about my phone conversation this morning - per your suggestons/comments/"honest answering" yesterday. my mind is in a jumble-

FIRSTLY - CONSIDER THIS: PERHAPS like any good science fiction movie- our h's are CLONES!!! and some superior race is planting them alllllover our country & lives - and they are allllll following the same plan- at the same time - saying same things at about same place in this mlc debacle ? worth a thought? could it be? they're soooo alike

My H said point blank, he is an empty man, with no compassion, can I live w/that. Even though I said no, here he sits. Clearly he thinks his ''presence'' here is very important to me. I recorded our last talk and when I replayed it I was shocked to really "hear" him say, "isn't it just enough for you to have me home, doing chores, bringing in the $$?

just off phone- I say i want a life with more in it than a 10 min. phone conversation a day- i want love, affection, companionship- friendship- FUN - and i do realize that finances will be awful - HE REPLIES WITH (ISN'T FINANCIAL SECURITY) "A good enough reason to hang in there with him?????" wtf ??? WELL - NO - THT'S WHAT THE HECK I'M SAYING _ it's not enough- I WANT A LIFE - I WANT WHAT HE THINKS HE HAS WITH OW - - i know i'm talking out loud & I have the volume on- i want love, fun, etc etc. and some sex would be very nice also.....""" him: "duuuuuhhhhh"

i say it's insulting to be shoved out of a house and a town that i considered "home" for 35 years - just rude and wtf???
him: "duhhhhh....look at the bunny...." no meaningful reply

mine just sayd he is a guy who "doesn't see r like i do" - can i live with that?. wtf - that you can care about and be friends with someone alot (me apparently) and have sex with someone else and be friends with them too (ow). (oh cripes- what planet can he possibly be from- to think i will "bite" on that one). he says this conversationally -like it's making perfect sense to him. i counter with - well, i have and see value in friends, family- activities and interests of one's own - in and out of house- but sex is quite another thing. him: "well, i can see that" duhhhhh...... wtf???

I heard him say, he will not ask for forgiveness, he will not be w/me like a H, or act as a F!

cripes - this is almost like a joke - the words & timing in our three r - it's creepy - (but - is it good or bad? hopeful or damning? whattyathink girls?)

so my h - - - when asked rite out- "you tell her you love her- she's the love of your life- well, is she?" no answer- somehow dances around & out and on to something else and i must take the bait- because i come away with no answer on that. he doesn't jump in with 'YES". HE says he will never go live with her- if she and i died tomorrow - he'd do nicely on his own- he is so blind about himself.

I say to him - that he said to me "i don't love you and never will" - I tell him that if i'm not the most important person in his life- i don't think i probably should be in it or want to be in the end..... duhhhhhhhhh.......

he says he feels people can be in each other's lives for a whole lot of reasons and it doesn't have to be love or "what it was", etc. blah blah blah- CAN HE BE FOR REAL???

DO YOU GIRLS think that "IT" CAN ever go to being just a friend or casual r with these guys and they fix things around the house - and they pay bills and they , WHAT? TALK ON THE phone five minutes a day- AND THAT IS ENOUGH????? AM I CRAZY OR HIM HERE???????? CAN YOU (AND DO YOU WANT TO) HAVE FIVE MINUTES a day of a "life" with someone????? why bother.

we both used to pick on his mother and laugh because she said (honestly & seriously) about raising children that: "children only need 15 minutes a day". wtf - no wonder he's f'd up- BUT here's him- thinking a r with me only requires that.

I told him i want a real life- that i feel awful to think he will never be in my life again but i can't do this forever - - - he's pushing me to THAT place- and he wonders "why i think he can't be there somewhere- the guy i call when something needs to be fixed" financial backup - - etc.

doesn't he get it- i don't think i will want him in my life if he pushes me to the place of being done with him and giving up on the person he is.

i tell him i need to know some tings about his past because i'm trying to figure out if anything we ever had was good or what i thought- KNEW - it was, because i'm not sure he's a person i even want to know- he may be a very bad person in fact- he says people change- we all do- etc - very philoshophical - i respond reasonably- he responds reasonably- it's sooooo INSANE I THINK MY EYES are going to pop out shortly.\

as i mull this back over- DAWN SMART SMART you to record- i wonder what he said - what i said- all of it- to sort thru (and make my self insane i bet) soooo much- probably an hour- no screaming or anger. i told him i'm not doing the fighting thing ever again- i hate it.

now that i'm here- i can't sort thru it- toooo much.

all i know is we remained calm- that's somthing i guess. he was pretty much trying to convince me he should come here wed. he needs to fix the book case - i said "why- so you can leave me with a stupid book case that doesn't fall down" "why bother" - somehow he thinks "he should fix it at the very least" wtf. doesn't he even wonder WHY he needs to keep me around - attached somehow- what the hell it means?????

he said "nothing is forever or unfixable or undoable" - that someday i might want to call him to come fix things (that's if i walked out tomorrow). i said i didn't think i'm like that- if i get to point of leaving- i don't think i'll keep him as a handyman or friend - he will be nothing to me - - - like my ex-husband. i don't think i'm that sort of person and THIS IS DEFINITELY not that sort of r. or was that sort of r.

i can't believe he thinks it- i'll be around somewhre in his life for the next million years - like ow ("they were good friends" f that!!! (for past 30 yrs!) i point out it looks mighty like he was cheating FOREVER. HE SAYS he has told me before not so. and why do i ask that more than once? he's said it already! - i tell him- I ask because IT'S FOR ME- my decision making process - my knowledge of ALLL the facts of our life - not for him. i'm not asking him stuff because i'm not hearing what he sayd- if i'm not walking out the door this minute - i need the reinforcement and some kind of feedback & reassurance that there is some reason from him why i'm not. what a selfish jerk- it's all about him - alllllll the time. how does one ever make a dent? it's like having my face smashed against a glass wall - real life on the other side - and being asked howcome i'm not enjoying it. (like him)

I tell him "BECAUSE (YOU JERK) don't you get it that everything you do impacts me" how can you not know that allll your "taking care of your own needs - when it includes other people - affects them" . everything you do - i shouldn't even have to point this out. you flay people alive left & rite and leave them bleeding and what? tra la - i'm so happy i'm so me - i'm so fine......-

gotta go - mom's lost purse & spinning outta control as usual- yikes ! hope this made some sense-

i did ask dawn - i'mjust not sure what bottom line is. this business of "wrangling" around with an attorney (who is good at his trade) has me exhausted.

xxoo (( ))

[albamarie]

They are in such need of change and something to quicken them in there broken hearts that they - like Tired said - go searching in any direction while breaking the very one thing that they ever had that was solid and good.

I told H this morning if he moved out he would't have to see my face or try to determine if I was detaching or not, he could just put me out of his mind like he already does while out there! He stays soo silent, like I'm trying to ruin his perfect plan.

We talked about him leaving, he's scared to death of leaving, he came up this excuses like, well I will have to take half my pay...we cant afford that, I'm too old, I don't want to live with ea, why should I...this is were the money comes to, this is my family...I have this...this is mine.

woah....buddy! Your the one breaking up our M, H-" I don't know I'm doing that, I don't know? " "what do you think I'm doing out there, I'm not having R's, I don't have time for that, I'm working, ea is a place far from home to settle at."

Me; '' Ok, look, you have been talking, and tripping over your own a$$ for almost 2yrs w/concern for this skank's life, when you talk to her every night @ 2am it is not about work and a place to crash, your invested in her well being, you are addicted to her crazy, street life, and have no regard for what it has done to us. Get the F out of my life, I want nothing more to do with your blatten ignorance.'' so yes, I do see that you have had plenty of time for R's, just not w/me.

H stairs at his shoes says nothing and walks into the kitchen and cleans it top to bottom.

I can't insult him, I can't kick him out, I can't hurt his feelings, I bet bullets would just bounce right off of him as well!

[Portia]

Dawn,

I follow your thread with some strange fascination. You deserve a medal for putting up with your husband. Wow, healthy dose of MLC, or what?

MLC - what a ride - and not the same for all of us. Mine has disappeared and has not contacted me for over two weeks now. And yours (and MizJ's as well) will just not leave. I guess the grass is never really greener for any of us, is it? I always sort of assumed that if we had not been long distance for the last few years and that he had already moved home that our situation would have improved, but I can see from your situation that just might not be the case.

I think this sort of thing should be part of lessons in school.

Best of luck to you, Dawn.

[nero]

hiya- 8 made a new thread but totally lost myself- maybe when i turn off computer and turn back on i'll appear?

I told H this morning if he moved out he would't have to see my face or try to determine if I was detaching or not, he could just put me out of his mind like he already does while out there! He stays soo silent, like I'm trying to ruin his perfect plan

i've spent too much time here today- need to clean really (and of course - go see my mother- oiyyyyy)

i tend to put things like you do- never have to see my face again. i tend to think interms of no foolin around- yer in or yer out. i'm here - as we see - BUT , if it gets to "that" - armageddon- i don't think i'm gonna wait around for 20 years to feel good again.

God providing something/someone else of course- fingers crossed.

all i gotta say is wow about your "honesty" to him about ow and his non-response. maybe bullets do bounce off?

i swear dawn- we're gonna be super women ourselves at the end of this day- if/when all this mlc crap is out of our lives for good- i will never do this again- i can swear to that.

(is that bad juju or what? saying never again) well- let me tack on - HOPEFULLY NEVER EVER AGAIN.

GOTTA GO CLEAN- BEEN obsessing here all day as you can see- hope i'm somewhere out there- gonna see if i can find me before i blow dodge.

xxo i'm jealous of your freedome of speech- maybe i'll butch up- who knows?

[tiredndrained]

Dawn...I've been called boring on several occasions. What I wanted to say was we can't all be running around all night long having sleepovers every night. Someone has to be responsible and raise our children. I used to be fun but now I've got a 40 yr old husband that thinks he is a teenager and doesn't come home at night. There is nothing fun about that.

In regards to them leaving..my H had an interview today and brought up the benefits for just him and kids. Hoping that is a sign he is really planning on going already. With that being said, the money was bad and I'm pretty sure he won't take the job. Ugh...still stuck!!!

Nero..hang in there. In response to your question..I don't think it is going to happpen where we can just be casual friends or roommates with this H of ours. They did too much damage. They think if they do fix a bookcase they are good for another month etc.

In my own case, my H spent months at a time with the OW and didn't come home. Then when I asked him if he loved her when I found out he played so stupid like, of course not. That is so riduculous. So, you mean you lost everything, didn't come home, broke up our family and marriage, destroyed any bond you had with our children, and didn't even love her? Seemed like a stupid response. I told him so many times he should just go move in with her. He always says they are not together anymore and he doesn't want her back, etc. Well, if not, then who are you with?? That only leaves it open to yet another OW and since he constantly lies I have no clue anymore. I still believe he never broke up with the first one. The one he doesn't love and isn't moving out for...Sometimes I can't figure out why he won't just go to her already. He is not a prize. She can have him. Any woman Ok with dating another woman's damaged goods should take him. The way I look at it, they won't work out or he will just do the same. Did I mention his father had 5 wives??