Do you get me?

[dfb]

My H has always had a bad habit of not telling me what was going on until he was ready to do it. For my part, I always left my schedule open in anticipation of such a thing.

My ex-b is a LOT like that. He doesn't like to plan at all, I like to have a tiny bit of notice. Even last night - he was going to go to shoot pool with a friend, but the friend had work to do. I told ex-b that I'd love to play if he was up for it (he sounded very tired, though). I didn't hear from him for 2 hours, and I bummed around for that time instead of working - holding my schedule open. I finally called him, and he thought that he was supposed to let me know only if we WERE doing it.

Grrrr.

I will hold days open sometimes, and I am trying not to do that.

It sounds like things are going well for you, though. I won't tend to cut out of a movie I'm watching with ex-b to do other things, except maybe for cooking (and he will always stop the movie).

[zero12]

Last night we had a huge argument about... well we argued about that too... and about what happened during the argument... and about how we argue... As usual, I was ready to let it go, but he wanted to sulk. I kept pushing it, because I wanted some kind of resolution, even if the resolution was to say, "Gee aren't we being a couple of b###heads." Except, he knew he hadn't been a b###head. He accepted my apology for my part in the argument, which was especially gracious (not!) since he had not (ha!) done anything wrong.

I hit the roof, which is when the argument over how to end an argument started. By then I was pretty fed up and he was acting as if he was going to sit down, have dinner, and watch television. I thought, but didn't say "Doesn't he have an apartment where he can go be self-righteous?" I wasn't about to spend the rest of the evening sitting twenty feet away (that's the maximum distance in my house) from a man who wouldn't let it go, so I was relentless.

Around and around we went. Somewhere in all of this, I got fed up enough that I told him that this was by far more effort than it was worth, considering what I was getting out of the relationship. Of course, he got on my case about always bringing things down to the ultimate choices. I happen to think that's the question in every argument that has gotten out of hand, which is why I spent four years backing down and apologizing, while he seemed to spend four years being self-righteous. I told him that I told him that he had a choice between being right or happy. He said he was happy being right... did you hear the swooshing sound as my point passed right over his head? I think he did get the part where maybe we were both a little in the wrong, but of course he didn't admit it.

Then he went back to my original point about having gotten so little out of the R for more than a year. He kept saying, "It hasn't been a year." He moved out in November 2002. Hello?!? So we had to rehash the "you-threw-me-out/you-left-me" argument. A draw as usual.

He decided to clarify what he meant when he said not a year, by pointing out that we've been together since last May. Together?!? I was completely stunned, and I told him so. "In my opinion we are not and have not been together. What about our situation is together? As far as I'm concerned, you haven't been married to me since you left. I've been married to you, but that's not together." I was completely flabbergasted, and I think he was too. When I really think about it, there is a rational level at which we are together, but in my heart I can't accept that he's here to stay. I don't trust him to stay committed to our M. He broke that most sacred promise when he left. I'm not sure how to let that go or if I should.

He got a little more philosophical after that; and we talked about the fact we communicate differently (not how, but that we do). He explained that on principle he doesn't want to have these arguments in the future and that we need to learn from it. How are we supposed to learn from an argument when neither one of us can agree on what happened? We're talking disagreements over what was said and what wasn't said... direct quote stuff.

I finally told him that there are some arguments that will always come around and will never be resolved. He could NOT accept that. When I told him it was a universal fact of all relationships... every couple, every psychologist, every book says the same thing. He would not accept it. At that, I gave up. I told him that he couldn't be married if that was how he saw it, because he'd never achieve that state of bliss where all differences are resolved.

I got up and went to the kitchen to get dinner ready. I decided that I wasn't hungry anymore and just set out one plate. Somehow me not wanting to eat, got him very upset. He gave me a hug and apologized for upsetting me. Huh? It was sweet anyway, and it pretty much brought things to a close.

The rest of the night went by pretty pleasantly. This morning I asked him if he thought we were ready to talk. He said that after last night he wasn't so sure. I explained that I didn't mean, right that minute and that I thought we had some things to get out in the open. I made my point about the counselor being able to help us reframe things so we understand each other better. My hope is that we can deal with some of the garbage while we're learning how to communicate. I've got to call the counselor today to see if I can afford it.

So there it is, I lost track of how many rounds. Frankly, I think this is the kind of argument my H and I should have had four years ago, but we kept pushing it aside. Having been through this before, I know there are a lot more of these left. Ugh! It had better be worth it.

[jstx]

Z,

Did it at least feel better to get some things off your chest?

[wiley]

Hey Z,

Sounds like more of the same, talk...talk...debate...

Actually, I chuckled a little at..

"It hasn't been a year"..He moved out in November of 2002..Hello?!?

Too funny, I'm visualizing your expression..

I decided I wasn't hungry anymore and just set out one plate. Somehow, me not wanting to eat got him very upset. He gave me a big hug and apolgized for upsetting me. Huh?

Actually, it has nothing to do with you not wanting to eat, it has everything to do with him sensing you're pulling away from him because then he gets a little nervous when you STOP your convincing. He didn't give you a big hug because he you were right about anything the two of you discussed, he was worried that you we're pulling away, and like I've said a million times, when they sense you're letting go in even the slightest manner, they will come back towards you, IF they like you. I'll bet you a casserole that had you continued to argue and put two plates out, the probability is there is no hug. Its not until you more or less threw your hands up and gave up, does he quickly come to your side, because he senses you're putting up the white flag for the evening. Its as old as time, push 'em away a little and they come right towards you. After 13 months, maybe there is logic in "letting go to get where you eventually want to be.."

This morning I asked him if he thought we were ready to talk.

Careful Z, thats that PRESSURE that creeps in and sets you back, thus earning you the response..

He said that after last night he wasn't so sure.

Of course he's not sure, I'd have reacted the same way. He wants to decide when he's ready to "get things out in the open", he probably doesn't prefer it be suggested or he'd be the first do the suggesting..

You know what they say..an ounce of common sense can lead to a pound of cure..LOL

Glad you're in Piecing..

[zero12]

Careful Z, thats that PRESSURE that creeps in and sets you back, thus earning you the response..

I left out the part where he said, "Yes" and just gave you the "but." I already knew the answer before I asked, just like I knew he'd agree to go to counseling, because here on the ground it's evident to both of us that it's time to talk.

You're right that he comes arunnin' every time I tell him I'm at the limit, but it's more than manipulative, it can get downright tiresome. That's why I never say it unless I mean it. I'm at the point where I can outline the things that I want in the R. If he can't do it, he can go.

A hug and an apology at the end of an argument is (believe it or not) a HUGE improvement from how my H and I are used to ending arguments. In fact, cut off the argument above at the end of the first paragraph, and you would have the unsatisfactory end to four years of arguments. I actually feel a little liberated today. --z

[MAL]

I'm glad you found that some good things came out of the 7-8 rounds last night. That's progress.


BTW,
It sounds like some of the fights I had with my STBX several years back when his MLC or whatever you call it started. It was rough and very exhausting. Eventually he quit caring enough to even make up or apologize. Forget a hug!

[zero12]

Hey, MAL! Well there's bad news. The television quit tonight, which means H and I have to get a D. We certainly can't talk to each other. Hee, hee. H is out shopping for a new fuse now, though we agree that's probably not the problem. --z

[MAL]

LOL!

Oh no! Did you get it fixed?

[zero12]

We can all breathe a sigh of relief. It was the fuse. We even survived two hours of talking about the repair.

[MAL]

Thank Goodness! It was touch and go there for a little while.

Whew!!!

But did you talk about the talk about the repair??