[quote=Pathfinder2]I don't know if there is any headway here at our home or not. I had started trying to show affection through physical touch. I thought that it was having some effect for the better, but maybe not. We have ML 3 times in the past 2 weeks. That is an improvement. However, I don't know if she is just using that as a tool to placate me or not. Do you radiate self doubt after you are intimate? I mean, why can't you see it as a positive and stop reading into something negative? It will show and can become a self fulfilling prophecy.
I don't think that I radiate self doubt after intimacy. The reason I say this is because I was thinking those thoughts a few days afterwards because of her subsequent coldness towards me over a period of days.
Last night, we had an argument over the time that the kids were going to bed. She had taken our youngest out for a day with just her. Our youngest goes to bed at 20:00 and they came walking in the door at 21:10. My wife then started to chastise me for not having the oldest in bed yet. Our oldest goes to bed at 20:30. I don't know what tone she used, but you use the word "chastise" and then you say she "attacked" you. Seems like a really big reaction instead of calmly stating your case and NOT listening to her IF she was actually attacking.
Is there any way she can give you feedback that is not complimentary, that you can receive or does it always escalate? IF SO, WHY?
Most often, I receive her criticism without defending myself. I listen, and if I agree, I say so. If I disagree, I usually don't say much at all for to do so causes her to get irritated with me. This time, I said what I did because I really didn't care what the result would be. You are correct. I was irritated by her selective wearing of her ring. I didn't mention the ring because I felt it would make me appear whiney and needy.
I had asked my oldest if she wanted to watch a movie with me, figuring that we could spend time together while my wife was out. I told my wife she had no reason to attack me for it. She was in violation of the very same rule that she was penalizing me for violating. If it was ok for them, then I shouldn't be listening to her attacking me over this.
this^^ seems reasonable to SAY to her ONCE and then drop it...but then I read on...
I should have made my point and then disengaged. It was my poor choice to keep responding to her attacks when she kept after me. Her refusal to own any responsibility for what was going on made me angry as well.
I admit that I was ready to engage in a fight. sounds like you were spoiling for it BECAUSE she did not wear her ring...so it had nothing to do with showing her you have a backbone.
If you really want to show her THAT, then address the real issue bothering you...
otherwise it's just more passive aggressive lashing out about things NOT truly at issue and
conflict avoidance of what is really bothering you. So you are not showing her a backbone by still avoiding the thing that really hurts...
. All of this is true.
I have turned the other cheek for so long that I feel she thinks I have no backbone. What triggered my anger was that when she had come back in from her day out, I saw she had removed her ring again. It appears that what she does is wear it around me and remove it when I am not with her. Within 10 minutes of coming home she had put it back on.
instead of telling her THAT^^^, you pretended you were angry about her "attacking" you for the daughter's bedtimes,
so now THEY can feel dragged into the fighting now, and maybe feel responsible for it too...
not good
I WAS angry about her attacking me for something she felt she was allowed to do. I felt treated as a child. My irritation with her not wearing the ring fueled my anger.
Obviously, her conduct erodes any trace of trust that I have in her. This past week, I have been VERY tempted to place keylogging software on her computer. STOP THIS^^^ CRAZY TALK now...it's weirder and more harmful than regular snooping. WTF is your goal?
NOTHING GOOD can come of this!! You are spiraling now and you need some professional help. Nothing to be ashamed of to need help,
but you have to get it...NOW
I have NOT bugged the computer or done anything else like that. I was venting. You are correct that I need to talk to someone. In fact, I have obtained a list of counselors for further work on me and my situation.
She spends an inordinate amount of time on it and is always very nebulous about what she does there. She still doesn't share information about her her day's activities with me. She does not want to share that with you. Wrap your brain around that. Get a life of your own and stop needing to know where she is or what SHE is doing in order for YOU to function...
it's too needy and it makes her responsible for how you feel, which is wrong and unhealthy.
Get a grip.
I have resisted every temptation that I have had. I HAVE been successful at this. Really? Like when? Like losing your temper BECAUSE she did not have her wedding ring on but you pretended it was about something else..??
I can only imagine what temptations you have not given in to, but keep at it. Don't backslide...you will regret it.
The "every temptation" referred to my thoughts of snooping. The last time I snooped was at the end of last summer. That was at the beginning of this big mess we are in.
25's advice to GAL is the tool I need to use for this. 25 was also talking about how we all need to get to the point where we are ready to walk away ourselves.
I don't need any of this Sh!t. I'm ready to start living my life without her. I don't deserve this treatment and I certainly think I will be much better off without her if this is all I have to look forward to if we remain together.
well IF it really is all you have left to look forward to, then NO it doesn't sound like much. GAL is NOT to get the WAS to notice anything about you.
It's NOT about them. It's ALL about you. Paradoxically it MIGHT spark some interest in you, on their end...but it cannot be the goal. If getting them to notice you is the goal
then it's a tactic to get her back, NOT a real or lasting change in you.
To ME, GAL means many things...such as
Discovering things you always wanted to do, or rediscovering things you stopped doing.
Exploring areas of interest in classes, activities, doing NEW hobbies, meeting people is KEY for sure. IMO, It's mandatory. New interests are in some ways better, b/c they do not remind you of the WAS.
A lot of what you wrote for GAL didn't sound super social to me, but more like solo activities, or with one friend, but if they are more social, great.
You clearly need more people in your life, esp people who do NOT KNOW your wife.
You do this because one of two things is going to happen.
1) your wife might not ever even look at wanting to come back...she may be gone for good.
So if you move on and GAL, the sooner you do it, the sooner you'll be happier in your new life.
OR
2) she may, for whatever reason, become interested enough in the new you, to take a look and wonder --
if marriage to you can be better/different than before.
GAL makes sure of it. We only know one thing for sure.
She won't return and commit UNLESS
she believes marriage to you can be better/different than before.
So how are YOU SHOWING her that it can be better/different?
by snooping? By arguing? By lashing out and deflecting in the arguments because what is really bothering you, is not what you are talking about...
I usually do not lash out at her in an argument. In fact, if there is anything that she would call an argument, it would probably be me saying something which she disagrees with and then she pours out her anger, frustration or disdain and I listen and either agree that I was that way, or I say nothing because I don't agree with her and I do not want to fuel her fire.
What if you just became the best you, possible?
What if you became a man that only a fool would leave?
Not really sure who that man is. I know how to be myself. I am the guy she was attracted to in the first place. I know I am not perfect. I am making changes. Maybe not as quickly or as easily as she would like, but I have made adjustments. I think you have hit the nail on the head when you say the change has to be something I want in myself and not something that she wants me to be. However, I still need to be true to myself. I am trying to find out how to be true to me and yet accommodate her desires as well.
25, thank you for taking the time to reply to my thread. Many times, I am tempted to just walk away. That temptation happens when I am fixated on what she has said to me or how she has treated me.
I will continue to search out ways to get involved with others, build new friendships and GAL.
