Unlearning conflict avoidance 4

[MrBond]

"I have been reading escapist young adult books (up to "I capture the castle" now) to avoid dealing with adult reality for a while now - how wasteful, though, to want to escape life via fantasy instead of living."

There's nothing wrong with that and nothing wasteful about it. You just decided to "stop living".

"Am very curious if EE can really change me. "

You are going to have to understand one fundamental thing. EE or any other program won't change you. YOU HAVE TO CHANGE YOU! If you rely on something else to change you, you will be disappointed time and time again.

"They should teach this in school, early; isn't it the most fundamental thing for us humans?"

Seriously? You're born with the thirst to live. YOU just made a choice to stop doing. You stopped learning how to play and have fun. It can't be taught. And again, you have to stop thinking that an external thing is going to grant you everything you want. It's all within you.

"Also, how do I know if my self esteem is high or low? What does this change?"

Right now you can bet it's pretty low. You're not proud of yourself and not changing. When you have high self esteem, you really don't care what others think of you because you believe in yourself.

"Will see an IC in 2 hours. I expect more from this one - exercises, role playing, whatever - than just information."

See that? STOP RELYING ON OTHER PEOPLE! All the C in the world won't be able to help you unless YOU start changing. All you're doing is blaming others for what is inately inside every human being from the day you are born.

"There is an interesting sounding exhibition in LA, where I will be starting next week. This is a typical thing for me to do - go to a museum alone, but it feels empty. That and see the movies that don't make it to here, again alone. "

Being alone has been your choice. You've even isolated yourself from your children. Yes it might have been because of your job, but you could have quit your job and done something else to be with them. They were YOUR choices not any one else's.

[LuckyLuke]

Hi Mr. Bond,

By EE changing me, I mean that I will actively participate, be open, not block off things. Being a passive spectator will probably change nothing. I also hope that the EE group will facilitate personal change.

I don't think it is necessarily clear how to live - Montaigne devoted a whole, famous book to this. We have new immigrants here in Sweden, for example, that don't know what is possible for them (go weightlifting? ride bikes? etc.) and I think something similar - horizon widening - is possible for everyone.

Point taken on the self esteem. Hopefully the IC won't just say pablum "you are worth it intrinsically".

Why not see a presumed expert on personal change, such as an IC? I don't understand your problem with this. Shall I read personal change books by myself and not ask for external support?

I do things with my kids, cook, ski, hang out, used to read a lot to them, still bring them books. Yes, I feel isolated from them, but how do I get closer? I would like to have a role model for this - .

Luke

[sandi2]

Well, I commend you for seeking guidance in personal growth and with any area of your life. However, none of this will be successful for you unless you apply your own volition. To break free of being the "passive bystander" will probably be your greatest challenge.

Anyone can sit on the sidelines and watch and listen. But if you don't participate, apply, and use your God given free will to live what you agree with.......it's like being locked in a cage. No program or counselor or forum is going to make your life better. As long as you CHOOSE to continue in your passive thinking and acting.

Have you took anything this forum has suggest, and really put it into action? If you don't agree with the advice, that's fine. But if it's just more passivity.......

My suggestion is that you go in to see your new C and tell him(and I hope it's a man) that you have allowed passivity to ruin your life and you need serious guidance in how to change. It doesn't change anything when you continually dig up the past. Once you know how it has affected you, why keep going over it? It is the present time you need help.

I hope you get it.

[LuckyLuke]

Hi all,

I have just returned from (female) C - much better than the earlier one. Wants to really understand and get into my head and I like and respect her. Still a great deal too, 30$ for 1.5 hours. She mentioned Asperger's as possibly relevant.

For EE I intend to fully participate - what do I have to lose by doing so? In my last personal growth workshop (for work, a long time ago) I was the first to volunteer for the 'hot seat' exercise (and where I was given my Lucky Luke name).

I have been here for a long time, so it is hard to remember all the suggestions given on this forum. I have stopped pursuing. I have dared to go upstairs. I have confronted my wife a few weeks ago, with a compromise as the outcome.

I have asked my wife out. I have read Cunningham and other books. I am going to EE. I have sought out (now two) counselors.

No, I am not a brave, conflict hardened person, but can occasionally muster the courage to do small, for me daring, things. The scariest thing is to directly deal with my W. I vaguely resent the idea that I have only been passive, and done nothing, but understand. I hope to report good things from EE.

Thanks,

Luke

[adinva]

Courage is doing things you are afraid of. Since you're afraid of so very much, you're actually quite a courageous man. Keep it up!

Did you know when you put yourself down you're putting down a whole bunch of people? Are you saying the other countless engineers in the world are worthless weenies? What if they would like to read a blog by someone like them with a different take on culture and the arts? Who are YOU to put them down? Take yourself at face value and stop placing judgments on it. Your idea that "men" like cars and sports is very skewed. Men like all kinds of things. You're a man. Stop the judging and just BE. You're really a pretty cool interesting guy, who is unfortunately obsessed with an unhealthy relationship. Would love to see that change, but the rest of you is GOOD, not just good enough but GOOD.

[Accuray]

For basic help with how to start and cultivate friendships read Dale Carnegie' s book "How to Win Friends and Influence People", it will give you some tools and therefore some confidence in social situations

[sandi2]

Best advice I've ever been given is to be true to yourself.

That's it! That is what I was trying to say in a previous post.

I vaguely resent the idea that I have only been passive, and done nothing, but understand.

If I'm the one you are directing that statement, I was responding to your self description of being a passive bystander. To somebody like me, it does sound like passive behavior and I admit--it is so opposite to my nature. My H used to be passive and it caused major problems in our MR for years. I personally don't believe a WAW, (and especially one who has had an EA that you happen to know about), will respond positively or respectfully to a passive H. So, that's why I have tried to drive that point home with you. Some ladies might adore a man like you, but I don't think your W does. I won't say that it has never worked in a MR, but I will say that I personally have never seen a happy M where the H is extremely passive, b/c the W usually becomes very......well, like your W has become.

I have been here for a long time, so it is hard to remember all the suggestions given on this forum. I have stopped pursuing. I have dared to go upstairs. I have confronted my wife a few weeks ago, with a compromise as the outcome.

I didn't mean you had to literally list all the suggestions. But since you brought it up.....what you saw as being "daring" or "confrontational" was at best settling for less than you wanted and deserved, which is exactly what got you in this mess.

You have good qualities. I'm not saying you are a failure as a person. I'm saying to make the most of your good qualities. If you simply cannot do something b/c it takes too much courage, then don't. But don't cut yourself off from having people in your life, and I was concerned at one point that you were getting very close to doing it.

Some things we have to challenge ourselves. Now, it takes too much courage for me to jump out of an airplane. Don't try to talk me into doing it b/c I'm not going to do it..... nor am I going to take classes on skydiving. I'm choosing not to do something that I don't desire to experience.

However, I may challenge myself to speak publicly before a group of people. It may make me nervous, but I'm interested in doing it, so I may read about public speaking. I would look for an opportunity, or create one, where I could talk before a very small group....and build from there.

In both cases, I have exercised my volition. Nobody forced me to jump out of a plane b/c I didn't want to do it. Neither would anyone force me to carry through with public speaking. It would be my responsibility to learn about it and then put it into action, b/c reading about the topic or taking classes are not enough.

I don't always express myself very well and I certainly am not trying to insult you. You have to decide what you will challenge yourself with, and what you know you have no desire to develop. You seem to want to grow in the are of interrelationship with people. You've read books, been to counselors, and will go to EE. That's great, and it gives you some foundation. However, this only helps if you act upon what you learn. Of course, you know this. Maybe I'm trying to put a firecracker under you.

No, I am not a brave, conflict hardened person

Is that how you see it? Maybe that is why it seems so foreign to you.

but can occasionally muster the courage to do small, for me daring, things. The scariest thing is to directly deal with my W.

And you have lived like this for how many years? You should not have to live like that, Luke. Do you believe you deserve better?

[LuckyLuke]

Hola all,

Snippets: no, engineers are not all weenies, of course not: just my point of view might be. Heck, engineers make and fix things (and so do artists and writers and farmers and cooks and doctors and wives and husbands and lots of people) and that is good! I really don't mean to judge, lest I be judged myself. In fact, my wife's judgmental nature is something I do not like about her.

Yes, I know that men are interested by more than just sports and cars; I just meant that they are not something that interests me.

Hi Accuray - thanks for the book suggestion. Will check it out.

Yes, passivity is not something my W likes or admires. Neither do I, for that matter! W dislikes her mother, for example, for not trying to improve the world.

Yes, I did settle for less. I don't know that I deserve more - what have I done or been to warrant this? At least we found a compromise.

I really don't like the idea of the 10 years between 55 (I am now) and 65 being as bad and as often empty as the last 10. People and friendships have been a weakness for me, so it seems worth working on that, especially given Mr. Bond's guarantee. Having kids has been so good and wonderful, but now they are slowly separating from home.

Being in the EE classroom will surely be different than the real world, safer, more supportive, positive. I hope that the combination of my will, the group I hope to find there, and what I learn will make real world changes possible. One hope is that repetitive role play of situations will improve my reactions to them.

No, I didn't mean that you were trying to insult me, sandi2. I am sorry if it came across that way.

I couldn't answer the question the C posed today: "how much are you worth?" measured in what? dollars? time? the ability to do something?

I don't deserve anything (sure, pay for work or services rendered). Why should the world owe me anything?

Luke

[sandi2]

One hope is that repetitive role play of situations will improve my reactions to them.

I like that! It has been discussed in various threads how practice can be very important.

I couldn't answer the question the C posed today: "how much are you worth?" measured in what? dollars? time? the ability to do something?

I don't deserve anything (sure, pay for work or services rendered). Why should the world owe me anything?

Then, can you answer my questions? How much are your children worth? Do they deserve anything without working for it?

I will be waiting to hear your answer.

[LuckyLuke]

My kids deserve what every kid on earth does: a chance at life, fair treatment, food and shelter. Both of them work hard at school, and because of this they deserve the rewards they have received (son got into his dream school, for example).

Luke