NLW, from what I can tell, you will have to speak to a L.
What I found in my searching first points to whether there is a custody or visitation order. If so and the order states that the children are to visit, then they are obligated to do so. Even if they do not want to.
The courts would have to be petitioned to have the order changed by a judge, if the judge determines the request of the child is warranted.
Please consult with a L ASAP. Your kids might actually have to go visit their dad.
Further information I've received is, specific to "Parental Alienation and Visitation Refusal Behaviour".
It seems that a spouse who does not encourage the children to attend visits could be unknowingly participating in Parental Alienation. And a kid who is basing their refusal to visit based on emotions could be found to have unwarranted "Parental Alignment and Rejection".
It is really interesting stuff, even though it does not help the situation. Legal advice and counselling for the kids seems to be the most recommended procedure to get through this.
At least in the US it can get really, really tricky because it is all subjective. In your case, your H has clearly behaved in a very inappropriate manner with the kids so it's not surprising that they don't want to go with him.
Yet, if your H forces the kids to get evaluated and the evaluator determines that there are some parent alienating behaviors present, you could even lose custody...
I don't know all the details, but from what I have learned, speaking in a negative way about your spouse in front of them or using language that constantly reinforces a negative notion like "he abandoned you" or "he is unstable" can be deemed as alienating.
And you never know the biases that an evaluator can bring to the situation. Either way, you don't want your custody determined by a stranger, 3rd party, so talk to your L, find out the specifics and protect yourself.
((((NLW))))
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
I thought once a child was over 14 years of age they have a say in where they go and what they do. If they are working and have school activities that makes an impact and he cannot expect them to drop everything to accommodate his schedule.
I didn't think there was anything set in stone with your case NLW. Yes talk to a lawyer and if he wants specified time with the kids then the courts can set up a schedule. My H tried to pull that crap and when we went to court I had the judge determine a definite schedule. H wasn't happy and he still isn't because it's not the schedule he determined and it conflicts with his OW time.
I will pray for you NLW. You need divine intervention. You need the law on your side. Don't worry about not being nice to your H. Protect yourself. Let him hang himself but don't let him take you down with him.
WH
AT BD: WH 41, J 43; Bomb 2/5/2012 Two kids, one dog D Final 6/18/14 J marries OW 1/24/15 "No matter where you go, there you are"
i found your trying to empathize with his situation in the supermarket interesting. i understand that you were trying to see where he was coming from. i tried to see it from a different perspective too but the one thought that kept going through my mind was that i would never have put myself in that situation to begin with.
it must be so difficult navigating through this visitation issue. my heart goes out to you.
Me:38.. H:33. Two beautiful kids S:6 D:3 M:8.. together for 11. Bomb dropped:10/17/11 Separated:11/07/11
Kaf, KG, WH, I have spoken to my L who doesn't seem too fussed. Said at this age, kids don't generally get sent against their wishes... but then again, my L has never come up against my stbx before.
I think stbx still has something up his sleeve... for example, today was Thursday, but not a peep out of him about coming to get the kids.
Interestingly, D17 and I went to city to shop and within 10 mins, she spotted him in the store that we always shop in. She looked away and so did he. He seems to be popping up in a lot of places we go these days.
He rang the kids' phones at around 2pm. S14 wouldn't answer, and when D17 did, he just told her it was his brother's 40th birthday today (as if she cared about something like that) and asked her what she was doing. She said she was just going in to work. And that was that.
After all the drama of yesterday, and his insistence on the Wed, Thurs, Fri thing, it all came to nought.
Still, tomorrow is another day, I suppose.
I feel somehow more settled and calm after all the recent turmoil. Whether I have reached saturation point, or am just simply starting to accept that he is awful and not someone I care to be around at all, I'm not sure. But I feel different. I don't miss him anywhere near so much anymore. I even forget what his face really looks like now, too. I have no desire to be near him or to speak to him.
Had fun with D17 and S14 again today. Life is good.
i understand that you were trying to see where he was coming from. i tried to see it from a different perspective too but the one thought that kept going through my mind was that i would never have put myself in that situation to begin with.
BF, Yes - there's no getting away from that I suppose. Sometimes I feel like he's pushing me so hard that I no longer know what's right or wrong. But hanging around in front of our kids (not to mention the kids' friends and their families who've all known us since kindergarten) like that is not something that is normal.
Thanks for your kind thoughts and understanding, it really helps.
Good to hear you spoke with your L and are doing better, NLW.
I think this was an important reminder that often, stuff like this is a fire best to bring marshmallows to.
I really don't think that your H would have much of a case if he took you to court, as your L seems to be saying.
If there was the off chance that your H would show up and assert visitation, the onus would still be on him to prove that he was refused visitation or was alienated, rather than his kids had rational reason for not visiting.
I've been puzzled over the last few months about how STBX seems to time his phone calls and visits to the house to pretty much exactly to the times that I arrive home at various different times of the day and night.
A couple of weeks ago, I slipped home from work in my lunch hour to let the dogs out and, within minutes, he was knocking on the door in a rage abut financial settlement issues.
And recently, he's started appearing at the same places that the kids and I are at (supermarket, department stores).
The other day, too, he mentioned that I always go to my parents' place on Saturdays (I haven't told him this and his memory is not good under any circumstances, even if he had heard us talking about it in the past).
Now maybe I'm paranoid... but it occurred to me that he may be using the GPS tracking function on my phone to keep tabs on me.
I looked it up online to find how to switch it off and they tell you to contact the phone company - because they are the activators.
Funny thing is, STBX owns the telco that runs all our phones.
Yikes. But maybe I'm just letting my imagination run away with me.
