After phone coaching session #2

[azguy]

I wouldn't beat yourself up over the clown car comment. It sounded like it was joking around, which can be good.

You cannot change him. If that means you don't want to be with him, that is something you'll need to wrestle with. This sounds like the behavior that he complained about to begin with. Don't go back to that sort of thinking!

Here is what I've tried. Try to remember that he is struggling with what he wants as well. This can lead to some really poor behavior. Think of the hurt he must have felt to think that to be happy he needed to walk away from his marriage (whether you think that was wrong or not). He really is in a fog right now. Give him some space to work on his own issues. My guess is that inside there is someone you still love and care for, and would be willing to accept. Implying you have some conditions for this acceptance, could be very inflammatory.

Act as if you enjoy his company, are enjoying the times together, and are not anxious about what's next. Easy, right? :P The idea is that if you fake it, maybe it'll give you the opportunity to work on the R down the road, and you'll make it. It's not fair, it's not easy.

Good luck!

[T1000]

I had certain things that I felt my W needed to do when it looked like we were reconciling. Voicing them did nothing but push her away. I think the best you can hope for is them wanting to try at all and slowly move forward from there.

Looking back now I wished I just went with what I was offered and built on that.

[reb9597]

azguy, your comments about humility really help thank you. And I'm going to follow your advice T1000 and not set any conditions.

Made it through yesterday! Actually had a really good time with H and dds. No awkwardness. H's train was a couple hours late and he kept texting and saying he was sorry (our of character). I was totally chill & it was no big deal. Girls and I shopped and enjoyed the time together. I was relaxed and had no expectations for day. It's strange, I was so nervous but when the time actually came it was super calm.

There were a couple instances that I was able to demonstrate positive changes. One was when D18 brought up topic of H's mother & her passive aggressive fb comments last week. It really upset H. I reiterated the point with D18, in front of H, that we can't control MIL's actions & she can only control hers & do better in the future about promptly expressing appreciation. Then we walked around a little bit & I could tell H was still upset. I tried to show comfort, told him we know MIL is like this & I was hopping mad when I found out about situation too. But I really felt that we (D18 & I) shouldn't deal with it unless MIL approaches us with problem. He said he's glad I didn't react & talk to MIL but he wanted to bring it up to her and I can't control his actions either. haha I just agreed and said he's right!

The other issue was when D18's boyfriend's mother called & I was sitting with H & girls were shopping elsewhere. She wanted to warn me that D18's boyfriend was preparing to buy D18 a promise ring for their anniversary. And from the mom's perspective, it sounded like my d18 was pressuring the boyfriend for the ring. I'm on the phone in front of H & was totally calm. This would have sent me over the edge last year! I probably would have called D18 over in the middle of the store & started reading her the riot act. But I actually felt really calm on the inside. Thanked her for the call & then asked H if we could talk about this. We step away from girls.

I fill H in on conversation. Bad points - H actually says "why does d18 want a promise ring? does she think it'll prevent boyfriend from cheating on her?" (This is where I DIDN'T SAY - WELL A RING DIDN'T STOP YOU FROM CHEATING!) Then he says, "we've only shown her a model of a long standing committed relationship and monogamy. It's probably natural for her to want the same thing". I was basically at a loss for words - did he really just say this to me? That a ring could protect against infidelity and we've shown her a model of monogamy? It was a good thing I was too shocked to react. I just didn't say a thing!

Then he goes on to say that D18 needs to understand that she can't force boyfriend into commitment & she needs to be more understanding & mature about relationship. I started getting teary here and H saw. I just replied "I know, she's a bully. She's just like me. She thinks she can do anything. You know I was the same way at that age." I do see a lot of traits in our kids that could be great with a good dose of self awareness. I wonder if they'll use their powers for good or evil haha... but I don't worry about it as much as I used to! Accepting I can't control everything has really changed my life.

I asked H's opinion on if we should do anything & if he would support me in talking to her. He was totally on board & supportive. I didn't bring up our therapy appt at all the entire day but he did at least 3 times. And he said after therapy tomorrow, maybe we could get some dinner then come back to house & talk to D18. Personally, I think I'll be an emotional mess & need a break after therapy tonight but will leave that door open for now.

So if nothing else, we demonstrated that we can have a good day and be normal. H texted last night that he had fun. Still not any personal questions about me, but he did express concern for my welfare. Wanted to know if I needed help driving home because he knows I don't like to drive at dusk. Texted to make sure we got home okay. Sent me a pretty picture of the sunset. Very nice, in a non-personal way if that makes any sense... maybe I'm just detached enough for it to not grab me that tightly.


It'll be a real kick in the pants when, after a great family day, H tells therapist tonight he wants to end marriage. Will cross that bridge when I get to it.

[labug]

What are you going to talk to your D about?

[reb9597]

I'm not sure 100%. I wasn't as freaked out as her boyfriend's mom was. H also pointed out it could be similar to wearing boyfriend's class ring or letter jacket back in our day. We do want to reiterate that we support D18's college aspirations but not an early marriage. But she'll do whatever she's going to do so who knows. She hasn't talked to me or D15 about running off to get married and she's very driven, not really that kind of girl. Who knows.

[labug]

So why talk? How would you have viewed this at 18? (I would have been angry that my mom and his mom were talking about me without including me in the discussion).

Love her, support her, treat her as you would like to be treated.

[reb9597]

Well the boyfriend's mom was talking to boyfriend last night so I'm sure D18 will find out soon enough. I agree, it's an opportunity to support her & not freak out. If anything, it'll be a chance to tell her how much we trust her & her decision making skills. I'll be on the opposing side of H in this regard, though, because he hasn't had much experience with kids anymore and doesn't trust their decisions like I do now.

Do you think he was generally obtuse and insensitive with his infidelity comments? His version of reality and our history of monogamy made no sense.

[labug]

When we show our kids that we don't trust their decisions, they stop coming to us for the important stuff.

I would let all that mind reading about H go because either way, it doesn't matter.

You are Teflon Woman, what he says or thinks should have no effect on you.

[reb9597]

Teflon woman! I'm there! Thanks bug.

I believe that very much about trusting kids. I parent from a much different place now than in the past. H isn't in the loop because he hasn't been around or involved. I can only grow and improve my R with girls. H's choice if he's going to do the same or not.

I wish I could change my user id to Teflon woman!

[reb9597]

H & I went to our first MC session the following day. It was the first appointment and neither of us had met the MC. Couldn't have worked out more perfect, H said he wanted to avoid traffic and ended up being there an hour early. So he did all the paperwork, which meant (to MC) that he was the main "patient" and was grilled with the main questions at first. These questions were very revealing, especially in regards to H's drinking. H was very very open and honest. I had felt he was drinking too much when he left, especially for the past year he was home. MC asked if his drinking was different or better now, H says now he drinks because he wants to, not because he needs to. MC was very good and really dug with the questions. H continued to reply surprisingly openly. I was actually a little uncomfortable (internally) at the openness at one point. H hasn't been that open for a long time and I was glad we had someone there to guide the questions because I didn't know what to do.

MC asked about our communication, asked how, in the past, we resolved conflicts. We both kind of looked at each other and H said, 'we didn't. We didn't really have conflicts. ' Then the obvious question is, how did we end up here? This is where I said 'I usually got upset and griped about it & he retreated and then we moved on'. So obvious, but why didn't we notice this was a problem before? We thought we were good communicators because we did communicate regularly about the kids. But that's about it.

I have faith that this MC will help us at least restore some communication and hopefully lead us to some conclusions. MC asked me what I wanted to get out of sessions, I stated that I loved my H, wanted a R with him, want my family healed, want him to be happy, I want to be happy, etc. When H was asked that question he replied that he wanted to heal R with our daughters. Then MC asked him if he had made a decision about M and he replied 'I made a decision when I left'. MC asked me, after hearing H's goals for sessions, if I was still willing to participate since his goals were different than my own. I had to think about it for a second or two & check my reactions, but said that yes I wanted to continue. I love my daughters and H and a better R for them both would bring peace to our family. MC pointed out that a better R with us would help w/ H's goals too. MC asked if H's affair was over & I was very appreciative that MC also asked if H had started any other R's. H stated yes affair was over & no other Rs.

MC offered homework and said to read 5 LL book. I've already read it recently and it was profound. MC suggested H read book & think about dd's love languages. H texted me the next morning and said he'd ordered the book & it'll arrive in a couple days. I'm glad he's eager to start reading and of course I hope there's something he'll get out of there about our M. I don't see how one can read it without seeing how it affects their love relationship.

H initiated a really good, long hug after the session. He was also kind of funny and started randomly telling me about plans for this fall & then said 'I don't know why I just told you that'. I just laughed and said 'it's part of our new communication'. We have another appointment in two weeks.

All in all I am relieved, happy that we're going somewhere, even if it is towards the end. I'm really feeling that after devoting time to this process we'll be able to come to a mutual decision about the future. I acknowledge there will be many ups and downs before it's over.

I think the biggest surprise is that I feel super cautious after this initial appointment. Very weary. I think I thought I was fighting our R problems, fighting the OW, then DB my ass off, then really owning my part & that has added a new layer of humility to my journey. Then I finally get to another door in the maze and pry it open and there's H w/ his drinking. Truthfully, not what I expected. I knew it was an issue, but I think I saw the drinking as another symptom. Maybe not as THE issue. And I wish that MC or I had thought to ask (I may ask next time) H admitted to self-medicating and OW and the really general BAD place he was last summer & since - and THAT'S the mental state that he makes life changing decisions for our entire family in? And after all this time, he's sticking with those decisions?

I can totally say that I wouldn't have been able to control my reactions and be my best self through this process if I hadn't started DB. And I can see a future hopefully with but maybe without H and I know I'll be okay, and that's also because of DB. I still panic, almost daily, but I can see it when I'm doing it and control myself a lot better.

On the other hand, I sat with a friend yesterday all day while she was going through mediation for her divorce. And it was terrifying. I cried all the way home. I don't want that in my future.

I haven't heard from H today. He initiates nearly all texts. I know he's mentioned looking for an apartment in the same town as us (he lives 45 min away) and that seems final or good, either way it's a step towards him seeing kids more.

I don't really know what my next step is. Continue with DB and PMA, but some days it feels forced and unreal. Then I ask myself, do I want a R with someone I can't be real with? After the revelations in MC, it's been a lot easier to have no expectations. At his best, I want R with H no doubt. As he is, I don't know how it would work. My only reason for continuing is that I knew the true man H was for a lot of years and this isn't him. And he admits that he's not happy.

Only difference between now and before he left is that I understand I can't make him happy. Now we'll have to wait and see if he wants to do the work himself. I'll do what I can on my end, though, to 'keep the road home paved and smooth'.