Sorry your here 2.4. I believe your w is relying on her feelings prior to taking the AD. If she isn't aware of what's causing the depression, and the mlcer isn't, they believe the spouse is the cause. So, now they take the AD and the baseline they work off of is that spouse is my problem.
As far as her pushing for D. Do the best job you can of dbing and let her do the work if she wants the D.
Thanks, I certainly feel that's what is going on. I know W had no intention of BDing me when I found out about EA. can't change the past but part of me thinks she may have started to feel better about things and it would have gone away if I had not have intercepted. Maybe not , maybe she would have met OM and I would just be none the wiser.
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
One might think that MLC, by nature, is chaotic. Especially since some, if not many or most, things about a MLCer and their behaviour is so strange, erratic, and even opposite of how they were before.
A couple things to consider, here. MLCers are apt to be quite... forgetful... They may say they want a D one moment and then seem to forget about it another.
While some of that is truly forgotten, it can also be because they truly do not know what they want.
That said, an MLCer may keep saying they want a D, yet never follow through. Again, there are a number of reasons why this may happen.
Regardless of reasons... this can go on... an MLC can go on... for many, many years. Their "patterns" will eventually show up and change over long periods of time. Patience truly is a virtue when it comes to MLC.
Sometimes the "fog" of MLC appears to clear and they speak and act concisely. It may not mean they are coming out of it. These "clear" moments happen over the course of the MLC. Sometimes good... often... not so much.
One thing to be very clear of, as the LBS of a MLCer, is that everything that is wrong with the MLCers life... now... and for their entire lifetime, is someone else's "fault". The LBS tends to be a target of ALL the blame. For this reason, emotional detachment is also very, very important.
Be careful, though. Some of their complaints may very well be valid. Check the complaints and see if they are something about yourself that you may want to work on, in you.
Also, the LBS of an MLCer may put rational logic... cause and effect... into the equation. What the LBS does not realize is, the toast the LBS burnt is NOT the reason the MLCer is mad at the LBS. It could be because the MLCer was chastised at work last week and that is being projected into the burnt toast drama.
No matter what, work on yourself. If your W is MLC, you need to stabalize yourself and be a great father, become a better man, do what you can to keep the road smooth (that means do not enter into arguments; listen and validate her feeligns), and GAL.
Wow plenty of good stuff to read through here, will take a better read on my coffee break and put my sitch against some of your points a d hopefully that will help all see what I am facing.
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
One might think that MLC, by nature, is chaotic. Especially since some, if not many or most, things about a MLCer and their behaviour is so strange, erratic, and even opposite of how they were before.
Yes, I am experiencing every part of my W having gone from being a loving, caring, kind person, who although was not religious believed in something - now being (towards me) a horrible person when talking about R, in everyday life when its not about us she if fine, but as soon as it becomes about us she is quite nasty and unkind. I believe she is also now believing there is nothing beyond life. Which is odd, because on her parents death bed she always believed something happened when the final moments came.
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A couple things to consider, here. MLCers are apt to be quite... forgetful... They may say they want a D one moment and then seem to forget about it another.
Yes, for the last few years its been a source of argument. W would claim I had not told her, or she had told me things, to the point where I thought I had a brain like a sieve. I realise I just had not been listening. Now I really listen, and I know what I have heard. She is getting so many things wrong, forgetting I have told her etc, yet still blames me. Only difference is I now know its not me!
My W however, is still in the mindset of D. Every single day, like its the buzz word and exciting thing in her life, and how dare I get in the way. She must do this, and do it now. Its been called many things, Divorce, Seperation, and now splitting up - at the end of the day she has no doubt that this has to happen very soon. In her mind we are already D if not on paper, and this is how she is leading her life now. Apart from the fact we live together due to finance, I help with anything she needs etc. Cake eating i believe its called. She also does things to prove that she can do them herself, almost to say to me 'look I will be fine', and when she has achieved these things she seems more strong willed about D.
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Regardless of reasons... this can go on... an MLC can go on... for many, many years. Their "patterns" will eventually show up and change over long periods of time. Patience truly is a virtue when it comes to MLC.
I'm aware of this and I have all the patience in the world - I am willing to wait, but W is eager to move on with life, in her words life is too short she needs to get on with it quickly. So I think in my sitch D will come and we will go our own ways whilst this is still going on. I wonder though if this needs to happen for W to come out of this.
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Sometimes the "fog" of MLC appears to clear and they speak and act concisely.
For me, it seems W thinks fog cleared the day of BD. Now she is out of her crisis and life has never been better - frustrating!
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One thing to be very clear of, as the LBS of a MLCer, is that everything that is wrong with the MLCers life... now... and for their entire lifetime, is someone else's "fault". The LBS tends to be a target of ALL the blame. For this reason, emotional detachment is also very, very important.
Be careful, though. Some of their complaints may very well be valid. Check the complaints and see if they are something about yourself that you may want to work on, in you.
Oh yes. I think this is key - what a horrible person i must be. Imagine having a H that has never cheated, never been anything but caring, loving, never treated you badly, always provided for you when needed, been through hell and back with you with parental death, need I go on! Yes she has some valid complaints, I have listed this in my original postings in new comers
Of course its 50/50. I have not been there in the right way, have not shown love in the right way, been a little over protective (not to the extreme W thinks) Problem is that at the moment I am only able to show to W that one of these is no longer an issue, the others are things that I can not demonstrate change to W as she will not allow me past the very tall wall around her and her heart. I have done things to show how I can show appreciation and loving actions, but when I do she becomes more distant (I know 37 rules!!!) - she says she only believes 80% is true, the remainder is fake to win her back. Also its 'all too late', and 'those feelings will never come back'.
I need to stick to these for myself and really work on my goals more. They are slipping of late, in fact i need to start reading again. I read so much in the first 4 weeks i exhausted myself.
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No matter what, work on yourself. If your W is MLC, you need to stabalize yourself and be a great father, become a better man, do what you can to keep the road smooth (that means do not enter into arguments; listen and validate her feeligns), and GAL.
Still working on this. I am not detached, i go through detachment and re-attachment. It seems she can sense when I am detaching and happy, and will do things to pull me back in. I guess I am not really detached! GAL - yes working on it, and need to do that more than spend every night on here reading and posting - guess its a balance. I would love to be a H only a fool would leave, but not sure what W wants in H these days, I wonder if its somebody that is the opposite to me, if so that would mean being abusive, cheating, and generally horrible, of course I am just joking but you get my point.
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
My W however, is still in the mindset of D. Every single day, like its the buzz word and exciting thing in her life, and how dare I get in the way. She must do this, and do it now. Its been called many things, Divorce, Seperation, and now splitting up - at the end of the day she has no doubt that this has to happen very soon. In her mind we are already D if not on paper, and this is how she is leading her life now. Apart from the fact we live together due to finance, I help with anything she needs etc. Cake eating i believe its called. She also does things to prove that she can do them herself, almost to say to me 'look I will be fine', and when she has achieved these things she seems more strong willed about D.
and
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I have not been there in the right way, have not shown love in the right way, been a little over protective (not to the extreme W thinks) Problem is that at the moment I am only able to show to W that one of these is no longer an issue, the others are things that I can not demonstrate change to W as she will not allow me past the very tall wall around her and her heart. I have done things to show how I can show appreciation and loving actions, but when I do she becomes more distant (I know 37 rules!!!) - she says she only believes 80% is true, the remainder is fake to win her back. Also its 'all too late', and 'those feelings will never come back'.
First thing....whatever your W believes at this time, she really believes, it is real to her. Matters of degree that we could split hairs over are not considered in her mind right now. Treat is as very real when interacting with her, and don't try to defend yourself, it's a waste of breath right now.
My W thought, believed, acted the same for the first 10 months to a year of phase2 of her mlc. And she was and still can be very forgetful...their brains seem to be racing on overload right now, not much room up there for considered, sustained thought. All I can say is you have to let her burn it out and chase down cheeseless tunnels. I had to walk that fine line between being a caring person and a doormat, until all her anger burned out, her pie in the sky ideas and OMs fell apart and then she could look where the answer really existed, within her. You W seems to have a bit of a walk-about ahead of her at the moment. It will change, be patient.
Stay out of her way. Stay out of YOUR OWN way.
My W has told me, since starting to exit the tunnel, many things that back up what is said here...scared, lost, though never showing it...it was always there underneath...questioning if she really could hurt the kids, family and all, that I wasn't THAT bad, etc. BUT...The other thoughts and feelings of done, leaving, that I was satan's bastard son, etc WERE VERY REAL and prominent
In the 37 rules I found the one that talks about not initiating conversation and such, but be available if she wants to engage you (with a pleasant expression at all times) MOST helpful for my sitch, my detaching and PMA. Do memorize the 37 rules, they do work.
Like you I had/have an in-house mlc'er...it's a rough road, you have to maintain "showtime" all the time...be sure to get out and give YOU some time and a break. I spent a lot of extra time at my office the past 20 months giving her space (and ME space).
Hope that helps some, your mileage may vary... T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Is it true of MLCers, that when they are feeling positive and confident they become more arrogant, rude, and push you away almost as if to say 'get out of my way, i can do this, i don't need you!'. However, when they are feeling unsure about something, concerned about something, or upset, they turn back to more like the person you fell in love with, and will talk to you with respect, and want your help and advice - until they remember and then they loop back and push you to one side again.
Just wondering, because thats how it feels sometimes!
Me: 38 W: 35 M: 9Yrs T: 15Yrs S8 D5 BD: Feb 13 Still Living Together
I feel like I'm in thick forest, I'm slowly drawing a map of the way out, but not sure yet which side of the forest I will emerge.
This aspect was so hard for me, I spend 60 hours a week at work controlling outcomes, and have for many years. Letting God, universe, who/whatever take over the sitch was an extremely difficult concept and way of operating for me to learn.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Is it true of MLCers, that when they are feeling positive and confident they become more arrogant, rude, and push you away almost as if to say 'get out of my way, i can do this, i don't need you!'. However, when they are feeling unsure about something, concerned about something, or upset, they turn back to more like the person you fell in love with, and will talk to you with respect, and want your help and advice - until they remember and then they loop back and push you to one side again.
Yup, you got it...they won't ALWAYS do that though, sometimes they just stay rude, etc, and expect you do help them...the only thing you can expect is the un-expected, so put expectations away (this actually helps with a lot of life and people, like at work and all). You can only control your own reactions and actions in life...this was a primary lesson of my W's mlc for me to learn. It's a key to detachment and peace.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
This behavior pattern is a lot like my W, who has always been a bit histrionic through our M, but at a "low volume", say 1 or 2...but in MLC the volume went up to full blast. The mlc'er is trying to re-wire their brains and emotions and coping skills from when they got stunted in childhood/adolescence/young adulthood it seems.
Maybe do some research on the cluster B personality disorders, such as Histrionic and Borderline etc for some insight (but not a diagnosis) into this dynamic.
Knowledge is power (and understanding, therefore compassion)...have you gone through all the the stickied info at the head of the forum, and Cadet's links?
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
