I think it's self-defeating to think of it this way. You're inviting him to share. He may not for any number of reasons. If he doesn't respond to your invitation tomorrow, do you think it might still soften him toward reconsidering? I would.
I don't think this will get the response you're hoping for. We do things out of loyalty and love, not guilt. Think how you felt when your MIL tried the obligation tack on you and your D.
Okay I know you're right. After everything I've learned I'm actually afraid it's going to turn into a tear filled 'WHY WHY WHY' session. That would be the worst scenario. It's hard to think of acceptance and validation, even harder to actually practice it. It'll be the biggest step I've made in DB.
My H is a very tough man and, historically,if he's done, he's done. I want to believe in impossible changes. It's been easier to keep my faith private and work on myself. Facing the reality of this confrontation & being the first time we'll actually have any (hopefully) true communication about our R is terrifying.
But even reading the ILYBINILWY book talks about this moment being the start of a different R. THAT's where the hurt comes from. We never discussed, never had the chance for changes, no communication or confessions then - okay he's gone.
My mind is replaying a lot of old history in prep for this thing. I need to refocus and have a beginners mind, hope for new changes.
Walking in cold and without a plan is a mistake. I have not seen even one example of where an MC was able to repair a marriage where one person claimed to be "done". I've seen RetroV do that, but not MC.
I have seen MC have a great positive impact when both people realize they have problems but want things to work out -- that's really what MC is for -- you both have a shared goal but can't seem to get there on your own.
My MC said that most people come to MC after it's too late for the typical MC approach to work. One person comes to repair the relationship, and the other person comes for one of three reasons:
1) To help the LBS find peace with the fact that they're leaving 2) To help the LBS face and fix all their issues (while acknowledging none of their own) 3) To "tick the box" that they "tried MC" so they can move on and not be asked about it again.
None of these 3 scenarios set you on the road to reconciliation, and if you're not in the "good" scenario, then you must be in one of these three right?
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I agree I have to have a plan, but that's what I'm trying to figure out here. MC won't prep with me, but isn't that me trying to control the situation anyways?? I don't want to be that woman again!
What are my other options? Cancelling appointment when he was actually agreeable to meet seems like that's sending the wrong message to H.
Okay you guys helped me see that my only option is to go and be as open as possible and to just allow H to get it out if he's able to.
There is a Retrv weekend in a couple weeks near me, but that seems like a huge leap in R from hardly speaking, to strained co-parenting, to still texting OW, then Let's go to Marriage weekend!
I don't know much about Retrv, is it worth a try asking H if he'll go so soon? Also, it seems to be a Christian based program and H is an atheist. Is the training totally religious based? If so, he'd laugh at me for even suggesting it.
I would say you should have a plan for how you would like to respond to the different bad situations Accuray lays out. You might come up with one or two points you want to make sure to convey to H if he starts focusing only on your issues, for example. However, you won't be able to control this situation, or your H. Would you want to if you could?
My DB coach recommended to think of yourself in this stage as a negotiator. You are looking for common ground with your H that you can use to start having constructive conversations. This will require a LOT of self control and listening on your part. Maybe the MC appointment will not yield results. That would be okay. Not every negotiation yields an agreement. I would say your goal should be to make sure it doesn't add strain or new wounds to your R. If you make progress, there will be plenty of time later to open up more.
I haven't had a chance to try this, but you might look for a MC who practices Emotionally Focused Therapy, or a workshop on it. This might be a better fit to your H's personality (reading between the lines here) if he is an atheist.
H: 38 xW: 38 M: 16 T: 18 S: 9 BD: 2/2012 W moved out 4/2012 D: 11/2012
My W wouldn't go to RetroV but I know a few people who have and they all give it rave reviews. It's not a miracle cure, however, and at least 2 of the people who went basically continued on their prior course. I have heard, however, that it's deep and meaningful and can turn around a really really difficult situation.
It is Christian-sponsored, but from what I've heard the religious side is unobtrusive. I'm a UU so I definitely didn't want some dogma-laden weekend but from the research I've done it's not an issue and I would have gone.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
This is so hard on the kids and the WAH just doesn't get it! It's so selfish.
D18 is marching in a parade today so D15 and I went to watch her. I didn't know H was going to be there to until we were on our way. I stopped and got donut holes to snack on and bought one of H's favorite donuts too. Because I'm being nice and friendly, right?!!
D15 gets really upset with me and when we get back in the car she yells 'why are you being so nice to him? He's the one that f*cked everything up!' I just empathized and told her I understand how much it hurts. And I left the stinking donut in the car.
Met H at parade and we joked and had a good time like we used to. Our sense of humor had always clicked and we can have fun when we want to. Then d15 gets upset with me again and whispers in my ear to stop talking to him. I know this is an issue between D15 and her dad and I'm not taking it personally. But it's hard to be the only one on the receiving end of all the teenage anger.
Just a frustrating transition that H will likely never comprehend. I think more likely he feels helpless to repair things with D15 or his family so he just acts like everything is okay. It's hard to imagine forgiving this lack of effort.
Then after the parade I go get a manicure and listen to a dating couple's conversation. They sounded awkward too and didn't seem too comfortable with each other. All they talked about was each of their own kids. Just a strange observation because my H has expressed that's all we have is our kids and I see, that's all other people have too, isn't it?
Now I'm feeling down. Just another day to get through.
Reb..i hope you don't think i'm lecturing you..because that's not my intention. I've been there too, stuck in between my kids and my H. My H never really knew/knows how to handle them. I was never impressed that he chose to handle things differently, or was actually quite indifferent to them at times. My daughter, 18 when this first started, took same path as your D15. She didn't want to have anything to do with her dad and ignored him most of the time. I had my older S24 living at home then, he would attack me and would say I deserved everything I got and Dad was right in what he was doing. The youngest S17, well his loyalties swung between both. It's hard on them, there is no doubt. They are hurt.
My DB coach suggested I DB my kids too. She meant, I had to look after myself No. 1, ignore their rantings and ravings, set boundaries, protect myself, show love, don't try to fix everything for them, and most of all don't let them get in between H and myself. At the end of this they will have a better understanding of the dynamics of a R. At the present time they are too young (even at their ages) to really understand the implications of a D.
Its a really tough place to be, you feel attacked on all levels. I've realised I have no chance of keeping everyone happy, and I don't even try any more. You will never (and its not your job) to keep H, your D's, your MIL, or anybody else happy any of the time. You're a good person. That's all you need to know. I just try to model good character, peace, and love in all I do. They will get it in time. D and H are already restoring their R somewhat, and they are doing it without any interference from me.
In any event, I don't get on with all members of my family, and probably never will. Its just the way it is and I've accepted it.
Hi reb. The impact of our D on my S is something that has really torn me up as well. At times I blame my XW, but then I don't think the D was only her fault. We each contributed. If I look at it that way I tend to blame my XW less. She walked away, but I contributed to that. So the impact on my S is my responsibility as well. I don't know if this applies to your situation.
H: 38 xW: 38 M: 16 T: 18 S: 9 BD: 2/2012 W moved out 4/2012 D: 11/2012
Okay I needed that reminder, thanks azguy. Galbaby, I'm so appreciative of the time and comments ppl make here, I don't care if it is a lecture or a 2x4.
I think I did a good job with D15 today, kept up the positive attitude and didn't stop talking to H when she asked. I explained afterwards that we each are accountable for our own actions and I won't let her dad dictate the person I want to be. I want to be kind and loving to everyone. I did not, though, remember my part enough in R failure enough with D15. So that's a really good reminder and helps deflect some anger. It's hard to hit all the points when your kid is hurting and upset. I want to just be upset with her.
I left a message a few days ago for the Retrv office. For anyone that's interested, she said the program is strictly for saving marriages. That was probably a stupid question, but I was trying ask them if we would be a good candidate because we're separated and H hasn't expressed any desire to work on marriage. The lady on the phone said you pretty much have to be committed for the amount of intense marriage work. Maybe we'll be there someday.
It seems I'm in the one step forward, two steps back pattern.
I'm kicking myself about my response to a comment H made yesterday. He mentioned looking at a new tiny electric car & giving his car to D15. He's a large man, and I made a joke about him fitting into a clown car. Well, that probably wasn't that constructive. I should have just kept my mouth shut and supported the idea. And if he wants to ride in a clown car, that's his choice. D*mn! It's always so easy to see after the fact.
Here's where my thoughts are today: I don't want H as he is today. I don't want his bad habits and insincere efforts. But in order to consider a future R with H (and in order for him to ever want to try again), I need to accept him as he is today.
That's a brain teaser! I think I'm missing a step in recovery and acceptance but I can't remember what it is.
Can someone make sense of this for me?
The more I think the more I confuse myself. The next few days are big. Day trip with H and kids tomorrow, H's taking train to meet us a couple hours away. Kids and I are leaving today.
I'm supposed to 'act as if', but how does that relate to a separated marriage? Act as if we're still a happy family? Can I be my joking, friendly, loving self with someone that doesn't want to be on the receiving end of that me? I think I should concentrate on my kids tomorrow and just have fun with them. The only thing I have confidence in is having a PMA. I can pull that off.
Then H & I have first therapy session on Tues evening. That goes back to question #1, I don't want this spoiled version of H. All I can do is focus on my changes. Try to find common ground. Be humble, I don't know everything. That's a problem for me, I like having answers and it gives me the illusion of control. But I'm learning to accept I can't control everything.
