Not confused...trying to move forward...

[BRNR]

Take life day by day and grieve the loss.

I will. And I am not going to make any excuses of why I can't or won't and just do...

As for the ow winning...well, what did she win? She won the shell of the man that you once knew and loved. The man she's with right now, is nothing more than a mlcing teenager and very shallow. They are both very needy and they will suck the life out of each other. Trust me, you had the best years of your h's life...she's got nothing at all but the shell of a man.

Snodderly, I know your right on this one...in my mind. My heart just feels differently.
I can only hope and pray and leave to God, that if my H is one of the lucky ones to ever come through this, and become the man I knew and love once more, or an even better one, that he and I have that chance to reunite.

You give this woman entirely too much credit...she's nothing.

I know I do, but that is because she has something of mine. Irregardless if it is broken or not. It hurts.

I am struggling with this...I know. I need to release it and her. But, I am concerned of her role in the future...mine and my children's future, and honestly H's. From what I have learned about her, even H deserves better than her.

[Portia]

B,

I am so very sorry you are having a rough day. I find that rough days often come on the heels of "discussions" or "incidences" with the H/partners. Just enough to remind ourselves that this is a rollercoaster.

So, I guess life just doesn't work according to anyone's plan. I have laid low, both on the boards and in my personal life...thinking, crying, and grieving.

This is OK, B. But Rome was not built in a day and neither should you have to immediately "solve" this problem in a matter of a day. Oh, yes, I thought the same thing. Give me a month and surely I will be over it. I had and still have a lot to learn.

I was holding on, I see that now, and have held on too long...my H is no longer my husband. He has changed, through his own admission. My husband died when he had the affair, that he still continues, again by his own admission. I am going to take some time to grieve the death, the death of my husband, the death of my marriage, and then focus on me and the boys and our future.

I know this is what everyone has been saying all along...and I tried to listen, I really did. But knowing and acting upon it are two different things.

Again B, it's OK. Acceptence takes time. Someone can describe the taste of something but until you actually taste it for yourself and experience it for yourself, the description does not have the same meaning. In DR, MWD describes DB'ing as being one of the hardest things in the world to do. When I read that at first, I read it and understood but until I began this journey, never truly and concretely knew that was and is true. This is YOUR journey, too.

I feel like the other woman has won! She has won my husband, the man I married, the man that I nurtured, supported, and loved throughout the past fifteen years. I want to strangle her neck. If given the opportunity, at this time, I know this is what I would do.

I agree with Snodderly's comments but know exactly what you mean. It is hard not to hate her and all she has come to stand for. I am working on it, still.

I can't fathom going alone in this world without that. That is what I want, that is what would make me happy, that is what I am lacking in my life to fill me completely. I have everything else that I want...2 beautiful children, a job that I enjoy, and friends that make me laugh and are supportive. I have my home that was something H and I achieved together, but that I will be able to maintain on my own, should and when the situation progress when he stops supporting me financially.

Everything except love from a man. This is what I want...and while I know that everyone (including me) has stated that a relationship with another is no way to save your marriage, going without one is not making me happy. Urghh...so frustrating.

B, I know you are having a rough day but this is a mindset that you must get yourself out of, even if your H came running back to you. Look again at your list...it is only H that is missing right now. Do nor think of what you are lacking, think of what you have. Now, I know that is a big part of your life and can I sympathize with that feeling! After BD, all of my independence came crashing down around my ears. Shifting your focus takes time...I am still not there yet.

Your lesson is clear: Learn to make YOU happy. No one but you is responsible for that - no one. Will it take time? Of course! Do you honestly think getting into another relationship right now would all of a sudden cure your grief? It would be the same band-aid that our partners used and it isn't working for them.

I hope I didn't come across as sounding too harsh with you. I know the pain you are feeling. We all have work to do.

Hugs to you!

[BRNR]

Oh Portia...I hear you girl. So true everything you said...

I just had a good cry at work since everyone left the office...and through the words of you and Snodderly I have gotten my relief for today...

I had to laugh though, because you said two things that for a few seconds took me back to Sunday...

I find that rough days often come on the heels of "discussions" or "incidences" with the H/partners.

This is why I am having a rough day I think...still replaying the words of the conversation...

and

Rome was not built in a day

these were the words of my H at the closing of our conversation...

You must've been there in my spirit as NO one has said this phrase to me in quite some time and to hear it from him and you within a matter of days regarding the same situation I find comical.

But this is a roller coaster ride that I wish I could jump off of often when the ride is at its peak. I wish it would go away, but just like the marriage took a long time to make, it is going to take a long time to break (even though H feels differently). These were my words the day he left the home, and I believe in this still today.

Do you honestly think getting into another relationship right now would all of a sudden cure your grief? It would be the same band-aid that our partners used and it isn't working for them.

This would be a band aid, I know...and honestly, not really my mindset although I can see why you would think that I think so. In all actuality I have had a chance to get into a relationship and have avoided that person like the plague because it is not what I want or is best for me.

I was always independent, my H would tell me too independent at times, and now that I need help and support I don't have anyone to do that. Catch 22, the way I see it.

Time is my friend, and I know everything will get better in time...but the space between the here and now and the end is what I am navigating, what I am still struggling with.

And no Portia, your words weren't harsh. Honestly, whenever someone here on the boards or in real life is harsh, the better I feel, and the more clearly I see.

I think partially that is because it is the smack I need to wake up, and because it is honest and true...it makes me realize the situation for what it is.

So, my small steps to make me happy are...

1-Take my boys to a professional soccer game. Not sure this weekend will be nice enough,so maybe on my next weekend with them.
2-Clear out some of the clutter that H left as to not be reminded of his presence
3-Work on the small manageable stuff on the house that H and I always wanted to do. I have a lot of painting to do...starting with my bedroom first...
4-Pick up my sewing habits again. I need to make some new couch pillows and cushion covers and now I have time to make that work.

I have a couple other larger short-term goals as well.
1-Before bomb drop I was working on my book keeping certification and lets just say, I was not into it all this time, even though i tried.
2-Writing (and maybe one day publishing) a book. I had one started, a love story, but I now I have a new idea based on some current experiences that I have outlined, and ready to start...

[BRNR]

So, I am focused on moving forward.

So, DivorceCare class is on Thursdays, and I have decided that I will continue to go, not sure how long though. These classes are on the other side of town. Wile H's night is on Thursdays, I have set the precedence of being home so he can bring back the kids anytime he wants...I have noticed that his times of dropping them off seem to get earlier and earlier on his nights, and I assume this is due to him heading out to see his girlfriend who lives an hour away. Our original agreement was that he bring them home at nine. And this works out for me because class runs from 6:30-8:00. Plus the drive to get home and maybe a stop to get some food for myself. Since he has been bringing them back at 8-8:30, I requested today if he could start bringing them back at 8:45-9.

Well, my MLCer thought it would be okay to say sure...but then proceeded to ask his own favor. Can I take the kids to school next Thursday...H's birthday. I said no, and nicely gave him a reason that I had to open up the office at work. He asked again, but this time with the guilt of, I am doing you a favor now I need one. I told him again, no I had another commitment. So when he dropped the kids off tonight he asked again. I almost lost it, but pulled back, he said he really needed it, and I said, I told you twice now no. He asked why wouldn't I help him out, when he was helping me. I reminded him that our original agreement was for him to bring back the kids at nine, and I have been available for him to bring them back earlier as it was. So, temper tantrum is on its way.

I will say I do have a little guilt, because I know he is only asking so he can be with ow on his birthday, and I only lied, because I don't care any more and I don't like him preferring his girl over the kids. Irregardless of him not loving me, he needs to make the kids his priority, not ow.

I know I set a boundary for the wrong reasons, but I am tired of making things easy for him to have his affair. Heck, if I wanted to, he is not allowing enough time for me to have my own.

So, with this I expect for their to be backlash. H just has no idea that things can and will get worse for him the longer he keeps going like this...he is only punishing himself because he will force me into a position of doing things that will really hurt him, and I don't want things to get ugly.

So, curious. I did the wrong thing, didn't I.

[BRNR]

Not really curious, I know I did the wrong thing...I am frustrated, as I feel I have pretty much given my blessing for him to have this affair and haven't done anything to show how I don't agree with it....I guess this was my way of passively not agreeing with it. Well, boundary is set, and I am. It backing down now.

Hopefully I have learned my lesson and will never do that again....and hopefully his tantrum doesn't force me to do anything I don't want to do...

[Portia]

Hi B,

I do not have to deal with kid hand offs so please take this with a grain of salt. I do not think you did anything wrong - OK, the lying was not great but I do not see anything wrong with the boundary itself. He is going to have to learn that when the kids are his, they are his.

I also do not think that you should give up your DivorceCare classes especially if they helping you. You simply tell him that you have a commitment on those nights and he must bring the kids home at the agreed upon time. Again acting as a reality check for him.

And B, do not think for one moment that he thinks you are condoning his affair. You do not have to tell him. In fact, if you re-read the Rules, we are not supposed to discuss the OP at all. I just keep saying to myself that he is going to do what he is going to do. It does not matter to him how I feel about it.

Sad but so true.

[job]

B,
I agree w/Portia. The boundaries were set and you should not waiver on them. If he was suppose to have them home at 9:00 p.m., then that is the time he should bring them home. You were allowing him to slide and bring them home earlier...You were doing him a favor by allowing the earlier drop offs, not the other way around. As you can see, you allowed him to drop them off earlier one time and he continued to do so. The old saying "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" applies to mlcers.

Do not feel guilty about your boundaries. Sure, he wanted his birthday morning to do whatever, but that is his day to take care of the kids and he needs to do so.

Do not waiver from the boundaries you have set. Hang in there.

[BRNR]

Snodderly/Portia - Thanks for confirming that I have done the right thing. I am trying to learn to stick up for myself and my children and I have let him railroad and bully me too long.

I will say, that I do not EVER talk about OW unless he brings her up. Nor did I mention my suspicions of what I thought he was doing. And really, I don't care what he is doing, but I am not going to re-arrange my life so he can do it.

I have let him slide, and I guess passively that was able to give me the opportunity to re-instate our original agreement.

So this morning, Mr. Attitude showed up. I was nice and sweet this morning like the conversation never happened told him Good Morning, "let" him come in because it was raining. I would have told him to have a good day, but as soon as he came in the house, he started bullying the kids to to get their stuff, get in the car, trying to rush them out the door.

I do say, I hate when our MLC's think they have been wronged, have the sense of entitlement, and act childish. And to further the matters, why doesn't he realize that things will get worse for him if he pushes my buttons too far.

I have evaluated my situation, and Portia you are right, look at all the things I have...including the upper hand to some degree in this sitch with H. Only because the reality world will favor me all the way through to divorce and the fantasy world will let him down. In a lot more other ways than OW.

I do hope he comes down to reality soon, but I have no expectations that this will happen.

So taking it day by day. At this time, I feel comfortable enough to allow my H to run the show unless he takes it too far. And by too far, I mean anything dealing with the kids, money, or my life. And I have learned that killing him with kindness unless otherwise necessary is the path I am traveling.

Thank goodness it is the weekend. Contact will be limited to my son's soccer game this weekend and that is it.

[BRNR]

Are woman natural thinkers of everything...I sure do think a lot when I am not busy.

So, had a great night with my boys...we went to dinner at a place we haven't gone to ever and they liked it and want to go back.

Got home and h had called and left a message for the boys...ending the message with "I love you both". I have to say, it rubbed me wrong, and I really don't know why.

And then I started thinking, it really bothers me that H has and may never show any genuine remorse for what he has done to me and what he continues to do. I am not even sure how to categorize this feeling. Am I angry? Am I sad? Am I hurt? Am I annoyed? What is the feeling?. I am not sure, all I know is that the only thing that came across my mind was "you fvcker".

Just curious, and maybe someone from piecing or who is reconciled can answer this. Do they ever express this once the come out of the tunnel and did it feel genuine once received?

I am not sure that I feel that my H and I would reconcile, but I do feel that I would want some expression of remorse. Just because they are void of feelings, this doesn't mean we are. Us LBS's have to live with those feelings based on our MLC'ers words and actions, and in my case, may never really get past it completely without that.

Today my hope is that one day I get a sincere expression of remorse from my H. Hopefully I get this one day.

[beatrice]

I think all of us dealing with MLC go through a period when we want answers. In one sense, as Snodderly says, sit quietly and they will come, but they won't be the answers to some key questions, like 'do we every get an apology?#

The point is that MLCers behave as if they have an empathy bypass, and I believe they actually do have an empathy by-pass. As far as I can see, some apologise and some do not, even of those who come out of it. One thing is certain, none of them appears to remember one tenth of what they said and did. Everyone I have spoken to on the other side of MLC whether or not they reconcile, has confirmed this. Things they did, things they said, including when others were present to confirm the details, are all either a blur or even totally denied. It is as if on the other side they do not have access to these memories

I think it is a great pity that MLC is not more widely recognised and studied. Not sure I would want it medicalised but I would like to see more understanding of it, and recognition that this is not 'simply' marriage break up, but a total personality change by one of the parties.

Part of moving through to acceptance for us, is no longer needing an apology - it is a part of the early and mid stages of dealing with MLC when we are very hurt and they are very mean. As we heal, and they often become less mean and crazy, we get on with out lives. Sure an apology would be nice, same as a lot of things wold be nice, but it no longer becomes something we long for and feel we need.

Right now it is raw and hurting, but as you know this drama takes a long time to play out. The damage that precipitated MLC was done a long time ago, and the MLCer needs to play it out in their own time.