DBing, European style

[sandi2]

Sandi?... is there a place that we can read script about WAS and LBS. Thanks, waitingformagic

I don't know of any one place, but would be interesting, if anyone had the time. It's amazing how you can read so many posts and see the same things being said. That's why we call it "script", b/c it's as if they have been given the same script to read. That phrase is usually tagged on the WAS, but since most of what I read anymore are posts from LBH's, I see where they make the same statements that the other H's say when they first come aboard. (BTW, there are a couple of reasons I usually stick with posting to mainly the LBH's in Newcomers. One reason is b/c I try to give them the VP from a WAW. But if any of the LBW's ask for my help, I try to answer as best I can....so thanks for asking. )

Your feelings didn't jump into high gear due to how loving your W has been to you, but rather out of fear of losing her.

Or perhaps the realization of what I would be losing? And the devastating impact it would have on our four children?

Exactly, and you said it much better. Along with losing your W, is knowing that life for you and your children will never be the same again. It can be very good....but it won't be the same. It can be compared to losing a loved one in death. We know life will go on, but it won't be the same as when we had that person.

My heart really hurts for the LBS's that grieve over the pain that D causes. I have never been D, but it has happened to my children and all around me. It is devastating, to say the least.

I know you're trying hard......in what you see as winning her back, but you are doing things FOR her and you are EXPECTING something in return. That's not DBing.

She has long claimed that she has taken on a disproportionate amount of the responsibility for the household. So my first 180 was to change that pattern. I thought that would help her realize that I was serious about laying the groundwork for a happy partnership. But now that you mention it, she has suggested that this hasn't been a substantial enough change. But it's all I had to work with. And if doing a 180 isn't DBing, then what have I missed?

Yes, doing 180's is certainly a part of DBing. I can see how it can be confusing. I can't explain it well enough, but again I see most H's do this when they fist get into this. Their main objective is to get the W back. Some even try to convince us they are doing things for themselves and not to get her back. They know that's what they should do, but usually you can tell when they haven't quite been able. So, being honest with yourself is important.

I go around the mountain to get to my point, so bear with me.

I've noticed with some people, when they set goals, they make it about the spouse. For an example, "S will kiss me by Friday" I believe the goals need to be about the one who is here, b/c that is who is putting the work into the MR. You can't make your S do things, so don't make goals about them. So, that leads me to the 180's and doing them to get the S back. Of course, everyone wants to get the S back....whether they will actually say that in their post, or not. But the bottom line is the fact you cannot control her actions, and you cannot control her feelings. Have you ever thought about that......that you can't make her love you? I wonder if some men really "get it". B/c men are taught to pursue and be charming and seduce the female to get her in the mood to make love. Isn't that his basic drive? Would boys ever try to start dating if it wasn't for his sex drive? (ha) Maybe I'm getting off the subject a bit. But if everything you do is to get your W to love you more......or enough not to seek a D, then would it not be very difficult not to look for any sign that she was coming around? How could one not have a little expectation when you are trying to save the M?

The problem is.....whenever you place expectations in a WAW, you are going to be disappointed time after time....after time. And a lot of guys take it as rejection, b/c she really is rejecting him and the M. After a few kicks to his ego, it does a number on him, and that's when you'll see a LBH start to go down very quickly. Are you with me so far... Sorry I'm so long winded today.

DBing is designed for the LBS. And really, it's about helping you to become better all the way around. Finding the man you once were. The man she fell in love with.......or a better one. In doing so, you have to keep your focus on YOU, and not what you think she wants. So far, you've had your focus on what you thought would change her mind about leaving the M. But there you go.....trying to control what she feels. Can't do it! She's going to feel whatever.....good or bad. Your part is this: being the best YOU that is possible, and carrying out your responsibilities the best you can (work, relationships, obligations, etc.) Then, the rest is up to her. If you are a H that only a fool would leave (25yrs quotes)and your W doesn't respond positively, then what more could you possibly do? Think about it! Your best is your best, and anything less is less. It's up to her how she feels about your best! Here's the thing, you will not accomplish being your best if your focus is on changing her feelings. B/c your focus is on her and what she chooses to do or not do. Then you get all flustered when you don't see any results. That's what I meant by having expectations.

Your 180's should be about you and what it takes to change you for the better. If her complaints are legitimate, then use that as a guide in where you've been slack. Do a lot of soul
searching about it.

Some things that's suggested for 180's are to help you in areas in the M that could affect your S, but there again, you can't allow it to make you feel like a loser if you don't see good results. If she doesn't like the change, she doesn't. MWD suggests changing it around to see if it helps the R. But just don't get into a trap of focusing only on what pleases her.....and hoping if you please her enough, then she'll stay. B/c that can lead to clingy, needy, melty-man (as Starsky says), and it's a turn-off for women. Any time the man is too eager to do whatever it takes just to please the woman, he's putting himself in a dangerous light. He's more like her hired help instead of a man. That's why I said she would not respect you if you were trying to do all the housework, cooking, child-care, activities, etc., so she wouldn't have to worry about doing any of it. Instead of really appreciating it, it can backfire on you. This where so many LBH's over-kill, b/c they jump in and do it ALL. It sort of goes against the attraction factor and she begins to feel as if she's in a more "superior" position, IMO. Kind of like how men in the business world would think of the housewife. Difference is, it didn't affect his attraction for his W, but it does affect hers if the roles are reversed. It's how men & women are wired differently. So, guys have to be careful when they work from home, plus the child care. Does any of that make sense?

I'm not through with what I wanted to say about having no expectations, but I've got to run. Maybe finish up later.