Time for the Loop the Loop on this rollercoaster!

[SM34]

Test message. Still on moderation? Do any mods read these messages? The previous was just a request snd was supposed to not be posted.

[sandi2]

Im struggling with the goals thing. How do I re adjust my goals now?

Which ones?

[SM34]

Sandi thank you for responding. I need help!

My previous goals where:

1) Go a whole week without any negative exchanges with wife.

She has calmed down now and is more patient with me and our out of control D3. Wife is very loving and caring and has been more caring of my emotional needs. We now never have negative int eractions. Even when I slip on things she mentioned she didnt like about me, she is still calm, and reminds me with a smile.


2) Compliment her whenever it is genuine.

She doesnt dismiss compliments anymore and acknowkedges them.

3) Get to a position where wife accepts or seeks physical touch from me.

She mentions her neck is tense and then when I ask her if ivshould rub it for her, she says that would be nice. She used to say no.

4) Wife will display physical affection unprovoked.

She has given ne a hug unsolicited. She has also rubbed my back cssually while we chatted.

5) wife will show a sign of us being a family.

She is talking about us, how WE can pay down our debt, what WE can do for D3 to build a nice back yard for her, what we can do together. The other night I was invited to a house warming but conplained to wife that I was tired and didnt feel like going. She encouraged me to go, and said D3 and i will be fine at home...and we will be here waiting for you when you get home. Well D3 will be asleep, but I will be here waiting.

Everything is going perfectly except she is still going to stay with OM. Her best friend told me that OM who is still unemployed, might be getting custody of his son and wufe admitted she did not think D3 should ever be a part of that. My coach had mentioned before that usually the cheater will glorify OM, and portray them as good with kids and a perfect step dad for her kids. Wife took D3 out with OM one time in the first week and then admitted to me his bad with kids and could not connect witg our dsughter.

Also initially she told her mother thst if i asked her to leave the house, she would move iin with OM. But she recently told her best friend she would move in with her mom.

Her friend also told me wife complained that there is no trust between her and OM. Surprise surprise, a cheating wife and a broken man who pursurs married women and there is no trust?

Thry already hsd a fight over snooping in each others phones. OMs ex wife is pursuing him now and sends him explicit messages and wife doesnt believe he is not responding becsude he deletes there conversations all the time. OM is mad at wife because her messaging with me is too friendly.

She is now telling her friends she loves OM, but not s life long kind of love. So basically it is what we consider an infatuation that is wearing thin now that his true self is coming out, not his representative.

But she still goes to stay with him. Its like the mlc person who just wants to spend time with someone who is more broken than themselves so they hsve someone who needs them and idolizes them. Like a damsel in distress. He id depressed now because of his job and his failed marriage, and his kids etc. And I think its comforting for her to be his saviour. She feels needed and wanted.

She initiates contact all day when she is home snd I am at work, and maybe 3 or 4 times a day when she is with him.

I think she might be realizing that relationship is what it is, but hesitsnt to end it becsuse it is fun and an escape....and an addiction.

What do I do now? Or intersctions are better thsn most married people, but not much moves to reconcilliation.

What can be new goals? Where can i go from here? I need to schedule cosching session soon.

[SM34]

It takes forever for my posts. So irritating. Its been months now! Do any mods read these posts?

[sandi2]

Your goals should be about what you will accomplish, not your W. You have no control over her.

Get to a position where wife accepts or seeks physical touch from me.

What would it take from you to be to the point she would want to accept physical touch? Instead of making a wide general statement, narrow it down to more specifics.

Wife will display physical affection unprovoked.

I don't see much difference in this goal and the last one.
At any rate, the same thing would apply.

wife will show a sign of us being a family.

So, do you consider her using words such as "we" as a sign? I don't. And, I think that is another very broad statement that doesn't give specifics. It's about "her" instead of "you".

Or intersctions are better thsn most married people, but not much moves to reconcilliation.

I know how tempting it is to compare your M to others, b/c I did it for years. Maybe it's natural, IDK. But do you believe the root to the M problem is poor interactions? I don't think you do b/c you already see it better than most other M's.

I think getting your DB Coach to guide you to the next step is a good idea. B/c the way I see things now is that your W is playing both men. You speak of how often she texts you when she's home and how many times when she's with OM. However, you don't know how many times she is texting OM! You have allowed her to keep her position in your home.....which is very beneficial for her. Yet, she gets the thrill of an A. If that's not cake eating, I don't what is. If you want to continue living like this, then that's your business. But, I don't really know what to tell you for the next step....accept wait it out.

She has seen that he isn't good around D3 and has decided the child doesn't need to be around him. You want to see it as a positive, and it may be......I hope you're right. But the fact remains that your W has seen for herself and decided it wouldn't be a good thing, and yet she chooses to continue seeing the OM.

Will his children live with him? Are they young children?

I think he will hang himself with your W, but how long it may take, I have no idea. But here's something I want you to think about.....if she decides that OM is a jerk and ends the A, will she be looking for a possible OM2? You see, if the OM is as sorry as he sounds, then your W is not really attracted to him b/c she has better taste (I hope), so it's more about what she gets out of having the A. If OM #1 doesn't pan out, will she still have those unfulfilled emotional needs that drove her to OM? I don't think she cares a flip about him. Never have. That's why you need to fix you so that she'll be attracted to you again, instead of going after anybody else....including OM #1.

[jp787]

Hijack.
Sandi2 I wanted to thank you for all your time and energy in my earlier post. I have gone back and reread everything and I dont think I thanked you, I apologize for that.

[sandi2]

You are very welcome. Your words are inspiring to hear.

[SM34]

Sandi you are an inspiration to all of us! I dont think you have ever written one word that I disagreed with, even with my naiive beginner knowledge of relationships.

I took the advice of many on here who saw my arrogance at its worst...they recommended I take time off the forum to contemplate who I want to be. I have been dong that, and I decided I want to be that person before BD.

That person wasnt so full of themselves. I was proud of my achievements but never in ny life have I put people down or lashed out like a rebelious teenager the way I did with people here who were only trying to help.

I regret being so confrontational with those people. I am so the opposite of that! In fact that is part of my sitch I think. I need to practice being truthful about my feelings so they dont develop into resentments.

I was rude to Mr Bond, and I lost his support. I read every single one of his posts to others.

I also read all of your posts sandi, and you are nothing short of incredible.

I aksi read the post of 25yearsmlc. Another one of the finest minds I have ever come across. But she hasnt visited my thread in a while.

Now some who have followed my posts, and may be reading this, may believe (again) that they are witnessing passive aggressive behavior. It was suggested that I seem to insult people or lash out, only to come back the next day and ask for forgiveness

However this time ir has been weeks, maybe even a month since I have really been interacting with anyone on here. I like to think I have grown and learned from that past behavior. I know I need to prove myself, and how serious I am in changing that behavior towards the folks here. So here I am! A changed man...I hope.

Sandi am going to take time to think about all you have said. I too think my wife does not care much about this guy. She is surely wishing it was much clearer to her that she wants to be with me.

My coach even said, and so did 25years (I am pretty sure it was her) that they are worried she is waiting to miraculously have these intense feelings for me, because that is not how it works.

I think my wife senses her self esteem is what is bothering her, and she is trying to work on that by herself. She probably feels thus guy is helping her regain that.

She said something to me a few days after BD that I didnt really take notice of until now. I have learned so much about human psychology and relationships that some of what she has said is taking on a new meaning.

She said, and she sounded very sincere, that she thought I would be better off without her, and that I would meet someone who would inspire me. Now i see that is a symptom of low self esteem.

She also said to one of her friends that she needs to get a job not so she can move out with OM, but so that if we work out our issues she can help me with finances. She almost seems to think she is not worthy of me in her current state. Not sure if i brought that on, but I probably played a hand in it.

Before we got engaged she had the same feelings. Her mother counselled her and they came to the conclusion that she needed a job and a career to feel good about herself. I signed for her student loan to go to the best private design school in the area, and then helped her start her own business.

Then we had a busy child, and all of that got benched, leading us to never solving her self esteem issues.

Sandi thank you for taking interest in me. Please check back soon, I need some insight as to were to go next.

MrBond if you read this, I apologize for lashing out at you. It was my fault and there were better ways to handle that. I have much to learn...

25, Talulla, AS, and everyone else who used to help me. I miss you guys!

[SM34]

Sandi

The OM has two boys who are 8 and 5. Supposedly he is getting custody of one of them, not sure which one. Either way, it messes up my wife's fantasy.

Wife was going to leave our D3 with me in our marital home, and then OM was moving to our city. Then they could live in an apartment ALONE with no kids.

I'm not exactly sure if its possible that my wife is having a mid life crisis at only 31 years old, and I know it doesn't matter a whole lot as far as my approach to fixing this. But, it does seem that way! Because...

In her plan she divorces the family and leaves, not divorces me and take our daughter with her as most WAW would do. My coach thought that was more of a crisis type fantasy than a WAW.

She said on BD that she was confused and doesn't know if she wants to be married. Bot necessarily married to me, but just married in general. When I was snooping back in the day, she had told OM in a message that she NEVER wanted to be married again.

She has unresolved childhood issues. Her mom left her dad when she was 13, and then the story is that my wife CHOSE to live with her dad. But, I think she has abandonment issues.

Also, her dad was an angry man. He scared her to death! He is much calmer now and I like him a lot, but she still has not told him about what has happened. He lives only 10 miles away, and drives past our house every day on the way to and from work, but only comes to see his grand daughter perhaps 3 or 4 times a year!

Anyway, wife at the beginning had said her and OM would have a room in their fantasy apartment for D3 to come stay sometimes. Wife was telling people she loves OM. Now it seems there is no more apartment story, there is no room for D3, OM has not moved to our city (4 months now), has enrolled in a 4 year college, is getting custody of his son. She is now telling her friend that she doesn't think its a forever type of love.

OM is providing a lot of drama for her. My understanding is sometimes people have affairs so they can feel 'alive'. He is certainly making her feel alive. Compared to our low key stable life, he is taking her on a roller coaster!

They look through each others phones because they don't trust each other, he conveniently leaves his baby mother's freaky messages to him on his phone, but deletes the responses he sends her. So my wife finds a one way conversation. He apparently has several exs who seem to be providing a lot of drama.

Wife's friend is sad that wife is wrapped up with a loser like that. But I understand it is part of the thrill of this whole thing.

I need to come up with new goals. Thank you for the analysis of the ones I listed, I now understand those are not really goals the way DR would you have you set them up. So I'm going to re read the chapter on goal setting, and try to re write them.

On the subject of possible OM2, I had tortured myself over this idea the first time it was mentioned to me. I did a lot of research and reading on affairs and I understand why it is a threat. She is looking for emotional attachment and fulfilment, and if OM doesn't provide that, sometimes people will seek out multiple A's until they find it.

Back then I snooped and thought she was too friendly with a certain guy on facebook, but after I mentioned to her that one of his comments on a public picture of her was not appropriate, she deleted the comment. Later when I snooped again, I saw she had a conversation with him several times telling him that she thinks of him as a friend, and she has no interest in him (because he was pursuing him).

She even told him that husband (me) has enough on his hands with my OM without you commenting on my pics, so please stop.

Her friend says she asked wife whats going to happen when its over with OM, and told her because IT IS going to be over with him whether you think it will be or not (her friend is pro marriage and wants us to work it out). Apparently wife told her she is not sure, and she will have to see when the time comes. She didn't seem to argue that OM is forever, in fact she told her it is not a forever love (according to her friend who keeps calling me to tell me not to give up).

The affair will come to an end at some point. When, as you said, no one knows. What happens after, no one knows either.

On BD wife told me she felt like she needed 6 months off from marriage to figure out why she is not sure about her life. She said if I need to get out of this marriage, then its better now than later when D3 is older and gets hurt.

So the 6 months will be up soon, and so I have really been acting like I am fine either way. I sense her anxiety level has been increasing though, as I think she knows I will not wait forever for a decision.

There is something that is VERY IMPORTANT that I need some input from EVERYONE!

She told her friend that there is not enough PASSION in our marriage. She had told me I didn't pursue her sexually enough. Now, how do I show PASSION in our relationship, without being sexual?

[AnotherStander]

SM, welcome back, hope your break was productive

The OM has two boys who are 8 and 5. Supposedly he is getting custody of one of them, not sure which one. Either way, it messes up my wife's fantasy.

Already back into the mind-reading though! What are you doing to make yourself the spouse only a fool would leave? How's your GAL coming along? How are you giving your W space and time? How are you detaching? Let's talk about those things!

I'm not exactly sure if its possible that my wife is having a mid life crisis at only 31 years old, and I know it doesn't matter a whole lot as far as my approach to fixing this.

Correct, it doesn't matter because it doesn't change your approach.

In her plan she divorces the family and leaves, not divorces me and take our daughter with her as most WAW would do.

Still trying to diagnose too I see! Here's the thing, there is no reliable test for determining WAS versus MLC. And there's some degree of MLC in EVERY WAS. You can kill yourself trying to diagnose or you can roll up your sleeves and get to work on yourself.

She said on BD that she was confused and doesn't know if she wants to be married. Bot necessarily married to me, but just married in general.

Keep Sandi's DB 180 tips near to you and read them constantly. Don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does. ESPECIALLY don't worry about anything she said at BD. My W said things to me at BD that she had zero recollection of only days later.

She has unresolved childhood issues. Her mom left her dad when she was 13, and then the story is that my wife CHOSE to live with her dad. But, I think she has abandonment issues.

Put all that diagnoses junk in one hand and poop in the other and see which fills up faster. Quit wasting time!

Anyway, wife at the beginning had said her and OM would have a room in their fantasy apartment for D3 to come stay sometimes. Wife was telling people she loves OM. Now it seems there is no more apartment story, there is no room for D3, OM has not moved to our city (4 months now), has enrolled in a 4 year college, is getting custody of his son. She is now telling her friend that she doesn't think its a forever type of love.

Again you're assuming that trouble between your W and OM means something to you, and it doesn't. Any assumption on your part that any of this is causing a rift between your W and OM is just pure mind-reading. Likewise I think you are STILL expecting W to just "come to her senses" at some point and return to you even though you're doing nothing to give her a reason to. I think that is killing your chances more than anything, that "wait and see" attitude.

They look through each others phones because they don't trust each other, he conveniently leaves his baby mother's freaky messages to him on his phone, but deletes the responses he sends her. So my wife finds a one way conversation. He apparently has several exs who seem to be providing a lot of drama.

You really need to detach from all of that in a big way.

So I'm going to re read the chapter on goal setting, and try to re write them.

When are you going to do that? Because it seems like all your comments about GAL, setting goals, etc. are future talk (I'll do that some day) while you continue to expend tremendous energy on mind-reading and diagnosing. Flip it around, make GAL and DB'ing your priorities and push all of the stuff you're engaging in now to the back burner.

She didn't seem to argue that OM is forever, in fact she told her it is not a forever love (according to her friend who keeps calling me to tell me not to give up).

Tell this "friend" to quit snooping on your behalf. Don't you see you're still doing the same old snooping, but putting a different name on it? You've really got to stop all that. Be careful of "more of the same" behavior.

I sense her anxiety level has been increasing though, as I think she knows I will not wait forever for a decision.

Mind-reading.

She told her friend that there is not enough PASSION in our marriage. She had told me I didn't pursue her sexually enough. Now, how do I show PASSION in our relationship, without being sexual?

You don't. If and when your W expresses interest in reconciling, then it will be time to work on this issue.