DBing, European style

[25yearsmlc]

hide the DR book better.

instead of assuming she'll read about herself and slap her forehead going "OMG HE is right! I'm wrong to want to leave!"

it's more likely she'll read about "you" and your tactics to get her back.

But then again, maybe no one read it. Maybe she saw it, stared at the title and shrugged.

So, back to YOU...

[Papa4Life]

Of course you're probably right. This is most likely wishful thinking on my part. I'll shift the focus back to me. (And the book is going under the mattress for safekeeping.)

The real question today is how to tactfully quit MC without giving W the idea that I think everything is resolved. W says she wants to go because the MC can be a kind of mediator, but it feels to me like MC just wants to make us accept that our differences can never be reconciled and to help make the road to D paved and smoothed. How about if I say "I'd prefer to arrange things for ourselves, because I think we are capable of making our own decisions and working together effectively to make any arrangements that need to be made." (I was thinking of adding "if and when the time comes," but -- and as a lawyer, 25, you might agree with this point -- that would just give her the opening to say "the time HAS come, and I want to take steps now." And I'll probably tell the MC the same thing: I'd prefer to work with my W without having an outside person validating her feelings without giving her the time and space to really consider all of the drawbacks to what a D would mean for her and our family.

Feedback? Suggestions? Advice?

[Papa4Life]

Journalling:

I asked W if it would be OK if I went along with her and D9 to field hockey practice this morning and she agreed. DD3.5 have been cooped up almost all winter because of the unusually cold/snowy weather we had last year and they are so excited any time I take them for a ride in the car or to the playground. They even have toddler-sized hockey sticks and they ran around chasing the ball until the cold forced us inside again. W had to work at the concession stand for a few hours (all the club members take turns every few weeks), and thankfully the DDs could get warmed up inside. I took pictures, including one of W standing behind the beer taps; usually she won't let me take pictures of her anymore.

I was very positive all morning, and tried to be proactive with getting everybody dressed and ready to go, tidying up once we got home, made lunch for everybody, and put the groceries away after W did some shopping. W's best friend has to attend a funeral today so W volunteerd to watch two of her kids, before remembering that she had plans for an overnight visit with another of her friends tonight. I assured her it wouldn't be a problem to keep an eye on everybody and get them fed before the friend came to pick them up.

One of the hardest parts about this whole sitch is the realization that I love my W desparately I love my W and wish I could change so many of the mistakes I've made in the past. I have been feeling this gentle, abiding sense of wanting to make things right. The reason I say that this is actually the hardest parts is because, if she does decide to leave, it'll be at a point in our R when I have stronger feelings for her than at perhaps any other point in our R. In trying to relieve her of more of the burden of household work and taking on more responsibility so she doesn't feel that she's got to worry about the kids' appointments and other junk that make parents say, "ah rats, I've got to remember to take care of that."

I know she notices these efforts, and it feels right and good to make these changes, but I hope I can continue with new goals and that hopefully she'll start to have a change of heart.

Am I making these changes, doing 180s, acting as if, GAL, and keeping a PMA for myself? Yes. Absolutely. I would have been out on my ear long ago if I hadn't stop pressuring her, no doubt. Am I starting to feel better about myself? You bet. I became a vegan last year, started working out, and I've lost almost 50 pounds, and this desire to become healthy extends to my emotional and mental health. I even joked to W and the MC that I'm working from the outside in

But in my heart of hearts, even as I gain in confidence that I can survive and move on if/when the time comes and I know I'll always be a devoted father, still I know that I will always love my W -- have never stopped loving her -- and the overarching goal of all of these efforts is to 'deserve' my wife and to convince her that, if she does decide to stay and work on things, that I will dedicate the rest of my life to building the healthy, honest, happy, mutually sustaining marriage that I know she deserves.

Thanks for letting me "type out my crazies." Now back to our regularly scheduled DBing...

[Papa4Life]

Journalling:

These really are the times that try men's souls. So, W went for an overnight visit with a friend last night. I set out to be incredibly cooperative and supportive with everything she needed to do as one of my 180s, and this weekend I really wanted to keep that going. As I mentioned previously, a friend of W's asked if we could babysit two of their kids, and W asked me if that would be okay, since she wanted to leave at a certain time, which would mean that I would be alone with the six kids for a while. I assured her that would not be a problem, and I think all the kids had a pretty good time. We played out in the yard and I took everybody to the playground. Then, when we got home, I made spaghetti and everybody had a nice dinner together. The W neglected to mention that she also needed to pack her overnight bag and get dressed before she left, which essentially left me alone with the kids the entire afternoon rather than just an hour or so after she left and before the kids got picked up. This friend of W's is one of her closest 'confidantes', which means she probably knows what's happening in my sitch than even I do! When she came to drop off the kids, she could barely make eye contact with me. It was so awkward. And usually she is very friendly to me and I can crack her up with jokes and all. But yesterday it was pretty much all business.

I dunno, I say that I'm not really concerned about an OM with my wife, but today I've been somewhat obsessing about it. Not that one might exist, but the fact that it would mean that she had lied to me about it, claiming to go visit a female friend of hers.

This morning, I made "pannekoeken" for the kids and then we went to the swimming pool (indoor) for a few hours. The kids had a blast, and best of all, we were out when W got home (shows that I'm doing my thing, not waiting at home for her to get back). I headed upstairs to take care of a translation project, and when I came downstairs in my running gear, W called me over to read an e-mail she had written to our financial advisor. Until now, W had said she didn't want to go to him about the situation, but apparently she has decided to just use him anyway, presumably just to get it taken care of as quickly as possible. Rats. I was surprised at first, and told W so. To her credit, D9 was in the room, but W closed the e-mail when D9 came over to see what we were looking at. She seems to be onboard with not letting the kids know anything until D-day.

Thank goodness I was already on my way out for a run when this blow came. I really went for it for the full half-hour and it really worked out some frustration. What I want most of all is to say to my W, don't do this. I love you now more than ever and I'm willing to do everything in my power to save my family from this devastation. Has everything I've done up until now been all for nothing? Is there no part of her that sees that I'm dedicated to making these changes permanent? And why, for that matter, do these hits always come after a period in which I feel like I'm at the top of my game?

W just came in as I was typing away and wanted to ask about an appointment we have on Friday with the MC (I'm starting to think of her as a DC). Ahh...the moment of truth. I tried to be tactful and calm as I told her that I was planning not to go to that appointment on Friday. She told me that she felt like that wasn't a good idea because she feels that the MC can help us draw up our "plan" for the future. So, now she wants to make an appointment for Thursday to discuss our plans with each other rather than with the MC. I don't know what to do when she brings up this stuff. She mentioned that she knew I wanted time to work on things, but I clammed up about it completely. I just don't know what to do when she starts to take concrete steps while I am trying my hardest to keep her from walking out.

Our financial situation is a bit of a dog's breakfast, too. I have missed out on several translation projects over the past couple of months because of my own emotional turmoil and because I've been trying to give her space to work more if she needs to and to do things after work. It certainly hasn't helped our financial situation. I know how much her job means to her, so I've been talking to her like crazy about her work, listening attentively, and giving her all the space I can give her. I just don't know what else to do when she starts talking about taking concrete steps out the door. I don't think the LRT is working...

[Papa4Life]

What a rotten day... I really thought that by doing my best to give W space and handling things at home with the kiddies that it would allow W to relax and maybe at least have a pleasant convo together. As if. I mean, did that e-mail have to be the FIRST thing she talks to me about? Jeez.

After I went for a run , I was pretty beat because I really went for it today so I could burn off some agro and stress. Then, W knocked on my door and was mentioning that it seemed like I was hurt by the e-mail she had sent. I didn't know what to say, then she talked about the stupid D plan we were going to discuss with the MC, as I wrote above ^^^. She mentioned something about how she knew I wanted to take our time to see how things developed or whatever, and told me that she wanted to take this concrete step. I ran the usual line by her about how I only wanted her to be happy. It's just so hard to talk to her because the only things we can talk about are the kids, her job, and D (which I avoid like the plague). I don't want to take any active steps towards D, but if W feels like she's gotta do everything it might just feel like more of the same to her because she has said she often had to arrange things on her own in the past. That's a bit unfair, because she is a native speaker, so most of the time she is ten times as confident making calls and whatnot, whereas I usually involved myself in executing the plans.

I dunno, I feel like things are slipping away. And I KNOW that she talks ad nauseum to all her friends about the sitch and all they're doing is telling her to drop me like a bad habit. But who am I to tell her not to talk to everybody about our personal lives? Maybe it's time to start rolling up the flags and breaking camp.

[Papa4Life]

I forgot to mention yesterday that when W came upstairs after the whole e-mail imbroglio, the first think she asked was how I was feeling. This was ironic, firstly because that was my old tactic for trying to draw her out and asking about where she stood with the R (that approach has now long been 86'ed), and secondly because she hasn't asked about my feelings since this whole mess started. I'm not sure what it means, but I'm not going to try to read her mind. Maybe just see this as a baby step: showing a bit of caring about my feelings can only be a positive sign.

[sandi2]

Well, I hope you're right, but it's probably b/c she just wants you to be okay with what she wants......which is a D.

I read where a lot of H's mistake his W's "niceness"as some level of caring....or even loving him. Don't even go there. It will get you more messed up than you already are. Don't take this type of action from her as meaning anything more than what it seems on the surface.

[mrtwopointfour]

I read where a lot of H's mistake his W's "niceness"as some level of caring....or even loving him. Don't even go there. It will get you more messed up than you already are. Don't take this type of action from her as meaning anything more than what it seems on the surface.

This is good advice, I will remember this. Especially when living with W still, I think its easier to fall into this trap.

Papa4Life - Thanks for your post on my thread. I started a new one so did not reply as want the old one to run down a little.

[mrtwopointfour]

if she does decide to leave, it'll be at a point in our R when I have stronger feelings for her than at perhaps any other point in our R.

Yes, really agree with this one. Amazing how something like this makes you realise how much they mean to you. Not surprising they are feeling taken for granted if this is what it takes to get us to love them this much!

[Grizz]

I have made the "niceness" mistake. It isn't a good feeling when the rug is pulled out from under you.