Yeah, originally I thought this was unique, but the more I read various threads, the more I see that others are in similar sitch. I think women are more conflicted and feel more guilt. In my W's case, I think she wants both to be single and do exciting things, and she wants the comfort of marriage/family.
My W is not talking about leaving or divorce anymore. But she is not committed to the marriage either -- still not in love, etc.
My DB coach's advice is to do things that show her how happy, exciting, and so forth the marriage can be. So I am both doing many of the DB-ing actions and also doing things to build the relationship. In terms of DB-ing, I do not say I love you to her, I do not ask her where she's been, I am not needy, I don't complain, I give her distance, leave the room first, I do my activities with my GAL, and similar activities. Yet, I also break some of the DB-ing actions: I gave gifts for valentines and B-day, I plan dates, and I initiate sex.
This balance seems to be working in my sitch, and this is Michele's main idea of trying something and seeing if it works.
Sailing,
I have been varying things up a bit like you. I think it is essential to get any improvement in our individual situations. I too have been talking with a DB coach. I think that is pretty wise. They think of ideas we never would. Keep us posted on your flying!
This week is Spring Break for the kids. Since W and I both work, we arranged to send our 3 girls to go with MIL to MIL's house in S. CA. They all left on the 6am flight Sunday, leaving my W and I alone.
I had made plans for the W and I to spend the day. Yes, making "dates" is one of the NO's for DB-ing, but in my sitch since we're getting alone hospitably, my DB coach and me as well think it makes sense to show that life with me is good and fun.
I made plans for us to go to a winery in Paso Robles that has a zip line. We had a great time, where you go on 4 zip lines in the winery. If you're ever in the area, I recommend it. With the tour, it's about 2-3 hours.
While at the zip line, the battery in my car died due to who knows what. Normally, such events would really upset me. Now, one of my 180's is to not let such things perturb me.
After the zip-line winery, we drove about 30 minutes to another winery atop a hill that has a surperb 360 view of the countryside. In the car, an argument arose between us about being a Medical Doctor and the suitability of my oldest daughter for being a Dr. My W works in healthcare and she holds Drs. on a pedistal. What irks me is that the subject of her infactuation is a Dr. Anyway, I argued that many Drs end up in medicine for other reasons than some natural inclination, whether it is $$ or what-not. She was arguing that there is a natural inclination, and that our daughter doesn't have it.
It was one of those arguments that doesn't get resolved. I should have avoided it, but didn't. Luckily, when we arrived at the next winery, the scenery blew us away, and we were able to put the argument behind us.
While sitting, sipping wine, and taking in the scenery my W mentioned that she received an email from 2nd D's teacher that she has been missing homework about 1/week. Discussing this, both of us were emotional because we feel our girls have been neglected somewhat during these times. On the days my W goes to the gym, she has little interaction with the girls, and I know this makes her feel guilty. Initially after BD, I had a hard time concentrating on anything else and I know I neglected them a little bit too. Essentially, letting them do what they want.
We also got onto the topic that my W is very unhappy with her job. She has mentioned before about returning to school to be a Physician's Assistant (PA). There is a 2-year program, where 1 year is at a University that is 5-hours from our house, and the second year is a residency with a local doctor. Again, we were emotional in this discussion. I may have had too much wine because I told her to look into it, and if it is something that she really wants to do, then she should do it. She replied that she didn't think it would be good for our relationship. The unspoken acknowledgement between us is that it would involve me being alone with the 3 girls for a year with little contact with my wife while away at school.
I'm stilling thinking through whether our day trip was another small step forward or a step backwards, or nothing. We enjoyed the day, but the discussions and what is left unsaid between us shows that my W has decided that she is staying in the R, but also that she is still convinced she is not in love with me.
When the bomb first dropped, my wife did say she was staying for the kids. She still seems to be in that mindset and is making the best of it. Which for me is fine for now, but at some point I need to have a W that loves me back.
Kids are away for the week, and W and I are home alone. It seems my W has plans for every night of the week. There's her normal routine plus last week she had told me that her work was going out one night. Additionally, she is going out with a girlfriend tonight. So it looks like Mon, Tues, Wed, and Thur are spoken for. I wonder if she already has plans for Friday?
So far, my W doesn't come home too late. Last night she had a drink after the gym and was home at 9pm. She's never home later than 10pm. It still [censored] and has me down. Even though when she comes home we're fine together. She had told me that "she needs to go out ..." I think it is part of her MLC. She also said, "When I am back I look at us and I feel we are okay."
What makes all this worse is that I injured my knee, which really limits my mobility to do things myself. Thankfully, the Dr. says the knee injury doesn't seem serious and will probably heal on its own in 3 weeks.
IDK what to do. Sit at home waiting for her? Try to go out, even if I don't have any place that I really need to or want to go to?
SA...sounds like a wonderful place to have gone. I would love a day like that with my h. I'm sorry that you feel that your w isn't responding the way you need. If you don't mind. Are you ML? or has she cut that off?
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
WFM, it was a nice day. In fact, one of the photos my W took is now the backdrop to her FB page. I understand Spring is the time to go because it is warm and everything is still green. Once the summer heat sets in, the temperature goes to 110F and everything starts to turn brown.
To answer your question, we still ML on a regular basis. I'm not sure how much to read into this. In a email exchange a few weeks ago I said something to the effect that the sex was good, but otherwise we were living like roommates. Her response was she was happy that at least the sex was good. Also, when she first dropped the bomb that she didn't love me anymore, and I was doing all the wrong things (begging, pleading, crying, ...) I had asked her if she faked it when we ML. At the time, she said "no, what for?"
Spending the week sans kids who are in S. CA with MIL. The W has been out every evening. Monday to the gym and then drinks until 9pm; Tuesday to gym and back at 7:30pm, Wed to bar with co-workers until 8pm, and plans for Thursday. I asked her via email yesterday if she was available to do something on Friday, and the response was " I can be, why what do you have planned?"
I took a light-hearted approach and responded, "Do you mean, besides having sex?" She responded, "yes, that's what I mean". I then said I had to do some work and we could talk later. At night I told her I made plans to go sailing.
I've been taking it easy since I injured my knee. It already is starting to feel better. Doctor says it'll take weeks to really heal. I spent time painting a room that I built in the garage. It's almost done. I hope to go flying either this evening or Saturday morning. My 3 girls return Saturday morning too.
SA, I also find the ML part interesting. Early in my sitch we continued to ML. She has said "you know, we have never had problems there." However recently it has really backed off. It has been over a month now which is a really long time for us. Actually except for after childbirth we have never gone that long. Not even close. I just don't know how to approach it with her. I think that she would be ok with it but she doesn't want to initiate it and give a false sense of hope to me (mind reading) and I don't initiate because I don't know how to anymore. HA! That sounds crazy. We have no physical contact now so I don't know how to really engage her to even approach the subject of ML.
I say if you can continue to ML then do. There is a connection there that you can't get any other way. I think it is a good sign. Not looking so good for me right now.
M 37 W 36 T22 M14 D8 D4 8/2012 distanced BD 11/2012 (likely wants D. Feelings have changed.) W move out date: June 8th.
Here's some mind-reading on my part, but there is some justification for it based on hints, things she's said, wrote, etc. My W wants to maintain a happy, agreeable home life. This doesn't mean she's feeling "in love with me", -- she has told me she doesn't more than once. But she doesn't want conflict and an unhappy or disagreeable home life either. So I think part of the reason for ML is to maintain this agreeable home life. Also, my W has sexual needs too, and she's not getting them satisfied elsewhere so why not?
I wish I had that problem to worry about! Unfortunately my W is getting her needs met elsewhere. I've tried to hug her twice in the last month and both times not even a hug back. So I won't try again. It's one of the hardest and hurtful things I'm dealing with because "physical touch" is my LL. This was one of the earliest signs when I knew I should have turned my life around. Beginning in September of last the ML had pretty much stopped. I think we made love once in September and then once again on 10/26 our 5 year anniversary. That was the last time:( Hurtful just talking about it
M 37 W 30 S 7 Together 10 years Married 9 years BD: 12/12/12(W filed same day) I moved to apartment 1/11/13 W and S moved to MIL 1/11/13 Peicing: 6/3/13 Reconciled: 7/2013 BD2: 4/20/16 still working on it
I've been in my sitch only about 4 months now, I think I've done OK with DB-ing, my sitch is 100% better than just 2 months ago, but still not acceptable in that W is not committed to M.
Why this intro? Because these past few days I've had a tremendous urge to start a relationship discussion or at least do some temperature checking. I want to see if my W is moving back toward the M, or understand what she is thinking.
I see the wisdom in me not initiating such a dicussion so I don't, but I DO WANT TO!
I slipped up a little bit last night. My W was at the gym, and I had suggested to her earlier that I could meet her afterwards and we could do something. She agreed. I later texted her that I was just going to go home because my leg was bothering me (I injured my knee last week).
My W called from the gym and asked if I ate, and wanted to go out. I said yes, and we went to dinner and the entire conversation was about her work -- this is a safe topic for us. At home, she left her cell phone out (this is rare) and I saw a short text exchange with her GF that she was stuck with me and would have rather been doing something else.
Yes, my bad habit of snooping is difficult to completely turn off. Now the next morning, I say to myself to only believe 50% of what she says, and especially what she says to her GF. Yet, last night it was bothering me. My W saw that something was bothering me, asked and asked, and I said something about plans we had for the next night and me telling her that if she didn't want to go, then she didn't have to. Only a minor slip, and only touching the periphery of a R discussion and whether she wanted to be with me.
Yes, I have to avoid snooping, I see how it undermines having a PMA.
In my mind, I want to defer any R discussion until end of June when we have a planned family vacation. When we return, I figure it will have been a little more than a year, and worth me initiating a discussion to understand where we are at.
Maybe by June I'll have detached enough that I won't feel so strongly the need to start a discussion. Guess I'll see.
