It is like she wants to continue the life we had, but be free of all burdens of being involved with me directly. She wants to be friends with me [b]on her terms, not truly a friend for me, but she wishes for me to be a friend to her. That is simply something I cannot offer. I cannot be a doormat that is reminded constantly about how she is leaving me to move on with her life. [/b] again, you put yourself in a "Win or Lose" situation. Why? How is she asking you to be a friend to her but NOT her to you? Why do you put it that way?
What evidence is there to support that?
what's with "cannot be a doormat"? Who asked you to be a doormat??
Look, If she wanted NO contact with you, you would complain that you "deserve more or better from her, and that you are co parents, with a d!!!, etc" You would be angry at her!
and btw, YOU SAID you wanted to be friends.
Now, her wanting to be friends with you, is selfish and crappy of her b/c---because, b/c she does not also want to be your wife. Oh, gee how horribly unfair of her...
You put this in a win/lose contest AND you set her up for losing b/c no matter what she chooses, she's wrong and you are right.
of course she wants to be friends "on her terms". She does not know what your terms are and frankly, neither do I.
Do YOU know what being friends with her would look like? B/C I sure don't.
You can say "everyone ELSE is uncomfortable with her NOT just me" all you want.
I have to assume YOU have shared or allowed information to be shared that reflects poorly on her. Heck, we know that.
And my impression of you as a h is all from your first thread or two. I highlighted sections in which you mentioned things YOU said or did and that she did NOT generally do those things.
You were not "confessing" or rather, you did not seem to realize what an idictment it was of how long you had treated her poorly and sometimes really badly. At the time you said SHE would say you liked fighting too much but You used the word "like to argue a lot and enjoy being right" or words to that effect.
YOU also said you were "too critical" and "too negative".
I feel strongly that you are too negative from your many comments to that effect, here.
You project it onto her, and onto others and you find complaints about her or flaws in her, often. You have for a long time and you still do.
You may deny it and gloss over it or mention how great you were in other, generic ways, but what I pick up on is a man who was negative, critical and hard to be around to/for HER...
but is fun to his friends...a man who wants to be better to the woman in his life but does not know his way back.
Your love for her is there but like her love for you, it's buried under hurt feelings of rejection even while intellectually seeing how it all happened...
your love is under layers of wounded pride and anger at many things...not all of her making. Until you learn to work through all that, I suspect any woman close to you in your life will be resented at some level.
not sure why I get that feeling, but I do. Might be way off...just a gut check.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Not to hijack, but I sure get so much from 25's comments no matter if they are on my thread or others. Thank you 25.
M46,W41 D16,D18 M22,T25 BD 11/12 W moved out 01/13 Piecing 10/13 Divorced 01/15 "Whether you worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can." UrWorthy
As always, 25, you are very insightful. I realize that a lot of what you say holds true merrit, at least to some degree. Perhaps I do have these character flaws, some I KNOW I have. I am trying to work on them and it will take time. Regardless of how I iinterpret things, W has her own perception of reality. We all do. It is unfortunate that she and I were not able to work on our issues together in hopes of saving a marriage. In hopes of giving a 2-parent home to our little girl. It is just unfortunate....no....it actually Suckks!
Originally Posted By: labug
Has she known the legalities of your home/business as it relates to the both of you all along?
She has known since before we were married about my share in the business, which is quite small. I own 15%. She has known that the business is an LLC, which should protect it from any personal involvment. She has known how our house was constructed, what the terms were and the fact that she and I together signed over the note a few years ago, giving it to the business so we would be able to benefit from the instests rate. She knows the legality of it, but she is holding on to the moral aspect. I see her view. She knows all too well that she has put money into it, and now she wants some of it back. I get that. unfortunately, I cannot give her any money. I can't because I am unable to sell it, I do not have enough money in savings and the other owneers of the business are not going to fork it over.
In actuality, I believe her request is far too high. We built the home at the PEAK of the real estate and building material cost in this area. Since then, just like it has all over the country, real estate prices have dropped.....not increased, dropped. W is expecting a nice return on her investment. She has literally spent 28k paying into our home. She expects 40K in return. In reality, even if it was a typical home loan, sitting on an actual lot for a single family dwelling, she would be looking at a LOSS on her investment capital, not a gain. her request is completely unreasonable
I wasn't questioning if it was reasonable, just wanted the whole picture.
When you're negotiating, don't you always start high or low depending on your stance, hoping to meet somewhere in the middle? Don't get sideways about what she's asking for in the first go round. And never take negotiations personally-things I learned from my H.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
plus, at least here, the real estate market is a little better. The inventory is finally down and not many homes like ours are under water.
Most are a little above or at least at what they paid in 2004-2007 ish...
so she may want "her" 28k back, or she could let it stay there until you can refinance and then get some return.
Sounds like to you, she is supposed to take a total loss-- but your family business benefits. How is that fair to her? Would you think it's fair if you were still married?
I can see why a divorce would NOT change that in her mind. Not sure I disagree with her either.
I can also see why she lives where she lives--you are in the marital home, not her. She could argue that its' wrong for her to pay the price for the mistakes you both made.
So she may feel you are ripping her off, taking the money she put into her/your home & now wanting her to lose all of it AND not live cheaply on the little family business apartment.
When you put the family home (as in your family with her) in the name of YOUR family's business,
did she have counsel telling her she was giving up her interests in marital property?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Just to play devil's advocate a bit so that you're prepared for a different outcome:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: suckerpunch
She has known since before we were married about my share in the business, which is quite small. I own 15%.
She may be entitled to half of that 15%. You'll have a better grasp on this when you bring a lawyer on board.
[quote] She has known that the business is an LLC, which should protect it from any personal involvment.
The business is protected in the respect that she has no claim to the other 85% of it, but she may very well have a claim to half of your portion of it (I did some checking into this recently because I was offered a portion of an LLC).
Quote:
giving it to the business so we would be able to benefit from the instests rate.
This actually sounds a little shady. If she can demonstrate that you did this in order to reap some personal benefit on something that really isn't a company asset then it could come back to bite you.
Quote:
She knows all too well that she has put money into it, and now she wants some of it back. I get that. unfortunately, I cannot give her any money.
I hope you understand that a judge doesn't care whether you can afford it or not. He/ she is going to base the validity of your W's claim on other factors and award her a portion accordingly. This happens all the time- people argue they can't afford to pay anything, but that is not a valid defense. I can't afford to pay my W half the value of our home either, but I understand full well that I will have to take out a loan to do so. I don't harbor any illusions that not having the money sitting in the bank let's me escape that responsibility.
She wants her initial investment plus a return. I think that is selfish. Perhaps my perception is wrong, but she is the one who is choosing to leave the family unit based on her owns needs and decisions. I wished to fix our problems. She did not, so why should it be fair? It is not fair to me that she doesn't care about my wishes. It is not fair to my daughter. Our financial security was based on being a family. She chose to leave that family, but wishes to reap all the benefits as well? It just doesn't seem right to me that my financial security, as well as my daughers, will be damaged while W walks away with a pocket full of cash to start her new life. Meanwhile, here I will be buried in debt that I will not be able to afford. Why, because it "fair"?
Our house was not a shady transaction. When we went to refi the business, the bank wanted the house included. The reason being, the house was on business property, which technically shows ownership. The house being included in the loan increased the overall value, increasing the collateral. Therefore, it gave us an even better interest rate. There was not really any other option. The bank would not refi without the inclusion of the house added. Although, we did not seek any legal counsel before arranging all of this. At that time, it did not seem like it would be an issue. Afterall, we were one big happy family.
Who ever told you that life is fair? Seriously? I must have missed that memo...
You are starting to come across to me as an angry petty man who is hellbent on punishing his wife because, *gasp*, "how dare she do this to ME!"
Personally, I don't see how $28,000, albeit not chump change, is pocketful of money. You are still going to retain the marital home. So, you have to buy her out? That is not being selfish. I think you might want to talk to an attorney and see what they say about a settlement before she demands full disclosure about every facet of the family business. Just thinking.
Before you get too angry with me, I am going to say that I see a lot of me in the way you come across (ripping off those rose colored glasses) before I came to my big "AHA!" moment. It really caused me pain to look at myself realistically and honestly and see someone I really didn't like and someone I did not want to be any longer.
“Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out” ― Art Linkletter
