A New Beginning - after 2 years...

[adinva]

Your kids could have a dad who isn't interested in skyping with them, like my H.

Sometimes what is best for your kids is not the least painful option for you. If you can learn to handle it, try to let them have as much of their dad as they can. Some OW eventually may be in their lives longterm, maybe this one, and blocking her out isn't going to be helpful for the kids.

I would have a hard time following my advice, but from a distance it seems like the best thing for the kids.

[keep_going]

Thank you guys. You are all correct and in the back of my mind, I knew that was the answer. So H called earlier than agreed to and we were still out. Luckily my sister was with us and she has Viber, so H was able to talk to the kids for free as he wanted. I also didn't have to talk to him since my sister handed the phone directly to D5.

D4 didn't want to talk much, but I insisted she talk to her dad and she eventually warmed up and did it willingly. I also brought the phone to S1 and prompted him to say "pappa."

Yes, it hurts like nothing else, but it's the right thing to do for my kids.

As for OW, I have really struggled since this all started to clarify with myself what forgiveness towards her would look like and how I should act with her or around her. When the time comes, I want to be ready and to what's right.

Anyways, I finally talked to my priest about it a couple of weeks ago and asked him just that - what would forgiveness toward her look like in my everyday life. He said that if and when we have to be in social situations together and if I am face to face with her, I should be polite. No rudeness, no disrespect, no anger and no hostility. I should also never bad-mouth her with my kids (I never do).

Yet he also said that I am in no obligation to have any kind of R with her or even chit chat with her. I don't need to co-parent with her either. I just need to simply recognize her as another human being in this planet that deserves basic manners and respect from me if and when our paths cross.

That put me at ease. I have been really struggling with the notion that I would need to co-parent with her, interact with her at kids' events, work with her re. kids' schedules, custody exchanges, etc. Monsignor said that forgiving her didn't mean I had to have a R with her and that H will need to respect my wishes if I decide to only deal with him directly re. kids' issues if/when they move in together. Not that I am there yet, but it gives me a compass for where I need to eventually land and also have peace.

He also said that our kids will certainly always wonder why I never interact with her directly. He said it would be ok if they ask when they are adults to simply state the facts to them and say that H and OW started their R before our M had ended and since that is something that goes against my value system, I chose not to have any relationship with her.

I know I might be getting way ahead of myself here, but I want to have a benchmark, know what the right thing to do will be and do it in a way that doesn't hurt my kids. Does that make sense?

Anyways, thanks again for helping me see with clarity. I am so blessed to have so many good friends and support coming from all of you!

[2chiquitos]

I've been thinking of you this evening. I hope you rest well. Tomorrow's another day.
(((((((((((())))))))))))

[keep_going]

Thanks, 2ch! At this time, it's only us West Coasters posting - lol...

Have a good night.
I am looking forward to seeing you guys soon!

((((( )))))))

[NLW]

Hey KG,
I'm here too!

I'm in awe of your attitude towards OW. I'm not ready to forgive her for the way she went about preying on my stbx.

It's too raw for me and she too concerned, now, to flaunt her new acquisition (my H) in my and everyone else's face.

I'm working on ignoring her, not so much of the forgiveness. She may be damaged, but she is also cruel.

[labug]

I think your priest gave you very good advice.

This may be difficult to think about, I know it would for me but you want someone who is going to be in the lives of your children to be loving towards them. A civil, respectful R, for lack of a better word, with you can only enhance that.

[keep_going]

NLW - Let me clarify - I am nowhere near where you think you are. Because I have been having such a hard time finding the strength to forgive OW and have not gotten there is why I talked to my priest. I just want to know what it will take so I can get there. I know you struggle with this as well, I just hope we can get there soon - for our own benefit. Thanks for stopping by and supporting me - I know you also have your plate full.

Bug - I know what you mean and yes, I don't want to cause waves, but I will definitely keep myself as distanced and as dark from them as possible until I can heal. Even after all this time, it all still feels very raw and right now all I want is to heal and stop hurting. I know the formula - time, detachment and patience... Thanks for your support - your words always help me center a bit.

[keep_going]

After H talked to the kids on the phone last night I didn't hear back from him until today, when he sent me the following email:

"Hi KG,
Based on the texts and your email responses to me the other day, it's pretty apparent you're upset and feel blindsided either about OW coming to Easter or Thailand or both. I've spent a few sleepless hours now trying to understand why you're surprised by this and acting out toward me. My first reaction to this realization was mostly frustration, but also concern and sadness.

I want you to know that I had no desire to mislead you or lie to you. I actually think that an open and honest relationship with you is vital. Yet I also realize that any conversation about OW is painful to you. You've asked me on many occasions to not mention her to you or talk about the relationship with you. So I honestly felt it was inappropriate to mention anything to you about the time I have spent (or plan to spend) with her. I'm not intentionally deceiving you about her - just following your wishes.

Now based on your reaction, I do feel like I'm in a no-win situation. Like I'm dammed if I do and dammed if I don't.
I know there are subtleties here that I'm not that good at figuring out, but I'm trying. I'm also trying to not upset you and hurt you. Just please know that I did not intentionally deceive you, and I'm sorry you are hurting.

PS. My BF and his mom were so happy to see the kids, so thank you. It would b nice if I could Skype with the kids earlier tonight. The van leaves pretty early, and I won't have access to Viber or phone after that. Can we do 5pm or 6pm your time?
H"


In the past, I would have totally gotten excited about it and created these fantasy ideas in my head that he truly cares about me and my feelings, just to later come crashing down when in a subsequent exchange he would again be distant or barely acknowledge me.

I think I see the dynamic clearly now. He is only nice to me when he needs something. In this email he says Hi, uses my name and signs his at the end. 95% of the time, he doesn't do any of that, says thank you, please or uses anything that might be labeled or construed as polite, well-mannered cordial or caring.

Yet this email sounds so kind and caring, and then it all becomes clear in the PS section. Butter me up with a nice thank you to then ask for what he wants. It may seem trivial, but after over 2 years of this dynamic, it's become textbook behavior for him. And I am over it.

In the end, I didn't even see the email until after the time he wanted to skype because we had a playdate with my Ds' friend all afternoon. I replied saying so when I saw it. Most likely (and based on what has happened now for over 2 years,) he will interpret that as me being vindictive, angry and passive aggressive.

But I won't let that bother me. It's sad, but not unexpected and I cannot control it anyways. I am learning to get off this co-dependent behavior with him. He can think what he wants and I am focusing on my Spring Break with my kids. His opinion of me does not define me.

I think I am making some progress, after all.

[labug]

KG, I don't see it as you do but I'm not emotionally involved with him.

I think he's a bit clueless to believe that after his less than stellar handling of leaving the marriage you're going to just get over it on his timeline. But putting that aside...

I read that he's searching for a place where you 2 can successfully co-parent your children. I think he's truly baffled. Have you told him not to use OW's name?

I think he does care but not in the way you want him to care. That's what grabs the heart and squeezes it. But the more you allow that realization to seep in, the easier it gets. At least that's been the case for me.

Give yourself some time and then come back and read what he wrote you again.

[keep_going]

Bug - thanks for the different perspective. You know I want to be challenged every time – that is the only way to grow…

I have re-read his email and yes, you are correct in many things. The main one is my H’s cluelessness. He has been and continues to be clueless at to how all of this still hurts me. In H’s perfect world, I would have completely healed by now, found another partner and we would both be happy with a Brady-bunch family setting. No mind-reading here – he has told me so.
Does he wish that because
a) he truly cares about me as a person and mother of his kids or
b) because it will assuage his guilt?

I think you are also correct in that he does care about me but not in the way I want and yes, that hurts… I also don’t believe either of the above answers is entirely right. I believe he cares about me in a way that fits his definition of “friendship” and “caring” for his “ex” which to me seems one-sided so far.

I do not consider a friend someone who never takes into account my feelings, who doesn’t engage with me or cares to even ask anything about my life. Even a simple and honest “how are you” has not happened in 2+ years. He has no idea of what is going on in my life and has zero curiosity about it – even when it relates to my life with the kids or the obvious things he knows about – like my dad’s cancer and my mom’s health issues. He just never asks.

Yet he does want to be amicable (he hates conflict) and when he is in the mood to talk to me (not that often anyways), he wants me to listen, validate and give him WOA (one of his main LL). He wants me to accept his POV re. his life choices, our D, our finances and his view of co-parenting. When I don’t agree, when I choose not to interact with him or avoid him, he accuses me of being the same old angry, abusive ex-wife or claims I want to take his kids away from him.

He still doesn’t understand why he cannot talk about OW to me or why I don’t want to see her. (Bug, yes, I have asked him several times to not mention her to me or tell me about their R or what they do together.) He’d like that in the future I am able to deal with scheduling / co-parenting issues with her as well as with him. Shows some of that cluelessness you talked about.

I don’t want that kind of R with him (or her) and he is perplexed by it. Will I change my mind? IDK. Perhaps he is right and when I find my next “prince charming” I will be ok with all his expectations and wishes for us and we will all live happily ever after with all these blended families all around us. Yet if I am going to be honest with myself, right now that seems like a fantasy to me…

As for finding a place where we can successfully co-parent. Yes, I agree that that is his goal as well as mine. The problem is that we have diff. definitions of good co-parenting. He wants me to sit down next to OW during soccer games. He wants me to agree to a 50/50 custody arrangement where his 50% includes only the times he doesn’t work (evenings, nights and weekends) and I have them while they are in school/childcare and ever other weekend, basically making me a glorified nanny. If I don’t agree, I am not cooperative and not trying to co-parent with him.

He doesn’t see the value of me staying home with the kids, so instead he has chosen to look for and settle for jobs that would pay almost ½ his former salary to force me back to work, greatly impacting our children’s lifestyle and educational opportunities and assuring that they will be in daycare / school from 8am to 6pm everyday at their current ages of almost 2, 4 and 5…

He thinks good co-parenting is attending kids’ gymnastics, yet sees no value in being involved or even asking about the schools they should attend now that they are starting to transition out of pre-school. He thinks we are a good team if he calls them or skypes with them for 5 minutes in the evenings, yet expects me to facilitate all his communication with them – by being completely available to fit his schedule and downloading apps when he is abroad, instead of him making arrangements to have phone service and asking me about my schedule with the kids. And when I am away with them, he also expects me to make arrangements to call him at his convenience and free of charge for him.

So far, his view of co-parenting has seemed pretty one-sided to me and more about appearances than substance. My H cares immensely what others think of him – he has said that other’s approval of him is essential to him. It also seems to be focused on his rights, his feelings, his missing the kids, his life, his schedule and it feels to me like me and the kids need to accommodate all of the above. That is where I think the cluelessness comes in and it doesn’t work for me anymore.

I think if he wants a successful co-parenting R, he should at least make an attempt to find out what my definition of it is and work with me so we can find solid standards and base behaviors we can both accept and abide by.

No, I frankly don’t want to see what a great time he is having in Thailand or anywhere with OW. And I do expect at least basic manners every time he addresses me and not only when he wants to ask for something. I do want him to acknowledge our kids have issues and if he is interested in finding a solution, that he talks to me about them and not try to find solutions with OW.

IDK, am I asking or expecting too much? Hey, if he doesn’t want any of the above, then let's accept that we won't co-parent, but parallel parent our children like we have done so far.

The bottom line for me is that if he is not willing to work with me on figuring out a co-parenting R that works for BOTH OF US, (just like our M), then we will fail at it (just like our M)…