A New Beginning - after 2 years...

[bustingout]

(((((((((((((KG)))))))))))))

I feel the same as labug in that maybe you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to forgive rather than letting it come to you by living your life regardless of H and his behavior. You know I know your pain...our pain has been so similar for so many similar reasons and such similar behavior of our H's (Forgiveness would be to treat him nicely despite the fact that in every interaction, he cannot get away from me fast enough, he ignores me, interrupts me and flat out could care less about what I am talking about whether it is trivial or something of real concern re. our kids. you could have been talking about my H here).

I also very much agree with Val about justified being a very strong word. I don't think we can say these actions are just. They may be understandable, we may have given them reasons to want to leave, but 'justified' implies having done something for a legitimate reason. And having a OW while still married, in my opinion, is not legit.

I think I understand what you mean however about giving it your all. Do you mean that you actually have not yet gotten to a place where you let him go and see what happens from that? Giving your all to be the best you can be for YOU and trust the process from there? Whatever the outcome?

You know there has been a lot of discussion lately on the board about self-respect. It has resonated with me deeply. I have been so afraid to let H think that I don't care anymore or that I am ok with what has happened and don't care about my M anymore, that I stopped respecting my own heart and protecting myself. Put YOU first KG. YOU.

Please be gentle with yourself.

You know what H's complaints were. You have addressed them. Now address yourself. Leave H on his path for now. Forge ahead on yours.

Love you KG

[keep_going]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in with so much good insight.

I guess I have to again go back to the article 25 posted on forgiveness and what they are currently discussing about acceptance and forgiveness on her thread.

VALESKA – You asked what “trying it all” means to me.

I am trying to listen to all of you and be more compassionate towards myself and really determine what is it that I can do at this point, given my situation. Perhaps I am not in a place of forgiveness for my H’s actions and hurt. Perhaps all I can offer right now is acceptance of what is. (Ad expressed this very clearly in her post in 25’s thread).

Like LABUG says, perhaps forgiveness will have to come to me with time?. Not sure how, but I see it as a Let Go and Let God issue. Thank you LABUG for reminding me that when things seem more than we can handle, it’s ok to let go.

SAYITAINTSO – Your questions really jolted me, so thank you for giving me that new perspective. No, I would not expect anyone here, nor my kids to be able to do certain things at this time. Thanks for letting me identify how the “black & white” side of me, the “tough” KG takes over my thinking process.

So if I asked the “tough” me, “trying it all” would be to reach FORGIVENESS and actually be happy for H that he is taking this trip. I do believe that his job situation has been weighing heavily on him and I think he is trying to escape it all even if for a few days and release some pressure. Yet the side of me that is telling me to take care of myself says that if I cannot feel sincere happiness for his trip, that’s ok. That I should strive for ACCEPTANCE and just not react negatively when he brings it up and if I don’t have anything good to say, just don’t say anything at all.

TALLULA – This is where I am trying to find self-forgiveness. Thank you for cheering me on in my journey and helping me focus on the positives.

On some level, my current state of mind seems somewhat surreal to me. When I don’t interact with H, my life is great. I feel at peace, I enjoy my life, my other relationships, my kids. I genuinely have fun and I feel positive about the future. I GAL, I try to be a better person with others and I try not to focus on the stresses of my life and our D.

Yet it all comes crashing down when we interact and there are triggers or disagreements. We share practically nothing except 5-minute kid exchanges characterized by small talk and we still have about one major, huge blow-up a month… I know that a lot of our bad interactions are currently related to our D, which has now taken front stage, but still…


BUSTING, I wished I could say that I have addressed H’s complaints, but I have not and that is why I say I have not given my all to be my best. “Trying it all” in the end would mean that I can have a R with my H where I don’t argue with him, where I don’t react to things he does, but can compassionately keep my mouth shut and avoid escalation. It would mean that I would show appreciation for all he does for his kids and me; that I would respect his decisions, where I would not react to triggers about OW. It would mean that I can really co-parent with him and start building a friendship with him. It would mean that I can love him enough to be happy for him and his new life. That would also show self-respect, in my mind.

I look at people like Crimson - there is a guy that puts all the past and present hurt and pain aside and finds the strength and calm to act lovingly toward his now XW, regardless of what she does. He shows with his daily actions his love for her and his son. That is a guy that no matter what happens with his XW, can always look in the mirror and say “I tried it all. I did my best” I want to get there too! And honestly, I am afraid, no - terrified, to discover that I don’t have what it takes to get there and be that loving despite of everything. There is that fear again…

Thanks again to all of you for letting me express myself and for trying to help me see things clearly.

[Accuray]

So I remind myself that his behavior, his lack of remorse and ultimately, his moving on with someone else to escape the pain I inflicted, is not only expected, but justified. I have truly not really earned his forgiveness.

I think you can be sorry for things you truly believe you did wrong, but you did NOT push him to cheat on you or to leave his children. That was a decision he made that you cannot own the blame for.

You can forgive him for cheating on you and leaving, but not on the basis that you pushed him to it. You did not.

Accuray

[bustingout]

That is a guy that no matter what happens with his XW, can always look in the mirror and say “I tried it all. I did my best” I want to get there too! And honestly, I am afraid, no - terrified, to discover that I don’t have what it takes to get there and be that loving despite of everything. There is that fear again…

I understand this fear very well. You expressed it in a way I have not ben able to.

Do I have what it takes to be loving, despite....

I think you do KG. I see you there.


And also, I echo Accuray.

(((((KG)))))

[Valeska19]

I am trying to listen to all of you and be more compassionate towards myself and [quote=KG]really determine what is it that I can do at this point, given my situation. Perhaps I am not in a place of forgiveness for my H’s actions and hurt. Perhaps all I can offer right now is acceptance of what is. (Ad expressed this very clearly in her post in 25’s thread).

Like LABUG says, perhaps forgiveness will have to come to me with time?. Not sure how, but I see it as a Let Go and Let God issue. Thank you LABUG for reminding me that when things seem more than we can handle, it’s ok to let go.

I do believe this to be true. The more I let go and let god.. the more peace I have.. but it is only because I believe that he knows what's best for me. Even if I don't like it.

But I do think we can actively seek forgiveness, but I believe that starts with us. By truly understanding how much we have been forgiven.

I meant to post this on 25's thread - but the topic's past - but I look at my own life and I can see how much grace, love, kindness and forgiveness is being shown to me on a daily life. Because of this, I am much more capable of these actions....

... and It's not the mindset of "ugh they forgave me so I should forgive them".. it's that I am INSPIRED to do so. My heart becomes overwhelmed with this loving emotion and its impossible to contain.

And I get that I am extremely emotional... trust me I do...but it's the same concept of when you hang out with a positive person, their positivity just rubs off on you.

Surround yourself with loving people who forgive.. spend time seeing the forgiveness in your own life - and it WILL rub off on you.

And yeah your H may not be the 1st person you forgive outside yourself, but you will get there... and it will be real without expectations....

... but in God's time... not yours.. because he knows you better than you do.

[keep_going]

Hi,

It's been a few weeks since my last post. Things are seemingly calm right now. My life continues to be busy with the kids, home and GAL during my free time. My PMA has improved and I feel more breathing room. In just a few weeks I will take some major steps away from my limbo and take control of my life, which is great after 2+ years of relationship and financial limbo.

Also, other major decisions re. the kids will have to be made within the month or so - where they go to school next year and if I need to move again or not. At this point it's more a financial and logistical decision, rather than what I believe is the best for the kids. Things will soon start settling into place.

As for R with H, it's still as distant and dysfunctional as ever. Most of the times, he treats me like just a distant acquaintance. He never looks me in the eye and his conversations are limited to very basic kids' logistics. The few times he is actually nice I fear he needs something from me or is about to do something that will hurt or upset me. Many times I have been right, so I don't think I am mind-reading on this anymore.

He is still unemployed (6 months now), we only have a 1-month cash reserve left and he told me he currently doesn't have any promising leads. Yet he is currently away on a 10-day trip to Thailand for his best friend's wedding.

This trip has triggered different emotions for me. I feel disappointed and angry simply because I think it's inmature and selfish to make this trip given our financial situation. Yet I had a few days before he left to process my feelings and was feeling more accepting that his financial priorities are not the same as mine and he is free to do whatever he wants.

Three days before leaving, he sent me a text asking to download an app so he could talk to the kids for free while away. In typical fashion, the text was after midnite, no hello, no sorry to text so late, no please, no thank you. Just a short request. I ignored it, mostly because his approach bothered me. I am frankly tired of him not showing basic manners when he doesn't feel like it and I really didn't want to engage at that time for fear to start an argument. I also assumed he would bring it up again. He didn't.

He picked up the kids on Saturday PM, told them he was taking them to see a huge surprise, which turned out to be going to the airport to pick up OW. They had a "sleepover," Easter Egg hunt and Easter breakfast on Sunday morning. That's when I finally confirmed that OW was also going to Thailand with H that afternoon.

I felt betrayed and hurt because he originally told me he felt "obligated" to go and that he HAD to leave 9 days before or airfare would be considerably more expensive. I was naive enough to think he would go solo, since the groom's family also offered to cover some of the trip expenses for him.

I now believe the whole "tix will be cheaper if I go earlier" was just an excuse to cover for the fact what this trip truly is - a nice, romantic getaway vacation with OW.

This behavior is no different than the last 2+ years in the sense that while he is not trying to hurt me on purpose, he has no interest or feel a need to consider my feelings, my opinions or what would be beneficial to me. I can understand this is where he is, yet it still hurts.


Anyways, I need some advice on how to proceed on something...
Yesterday afternoon I got the following email from H:

"I arrived in Bangkok.
I don't have access to regular phone or text, but you can email me or try to text/call on Viber... Or text on whatsapp.
Were you able to download Viber? I don't see you on my list. I do see your sister is on Viber though.
Please text me when you get on Viber so that I can call and talk to the kids. Your text might not go through right away though.

I hope you had a nice Easter.
H."


I responded that I didn't have the app because I have no more memory on my phone (which is true) and asked if he could instead buy a prepaid phone card or call his cell carrier so he could call the kids. He was annoyed and said he had paid money for internet access so he could use Viper and he didn't want to pay money for calls.

I responded by saying I was sorry he spent money and asked him to please next time confirm with me beforehand to make sure his plan would work. He then said he would look into getting phone access and asked to skype last night. I agreed as long as he was alone. I didn't want him to even consider having OW talk to my kids with me there - I am not ready to handle that.

He said he would be alone and when we connected, I didn't come onscreen. He showed the girls his room, a small shrine out the window and was just so excited telling them about Bangkok. Then both his BF and his BF's mom came onscreen to say hi to the girls. I didn't know if it would be appropriate to come onscreen at that point and say hi. After all, my H is there with OW. I also have not talked to this family in over two years, although we used to have a very close R. In fact, they hosted our civil wedding party almost 15 years ago...

The whole thing felt so awkward, surreal and painful to me. This was a family we had a R with, this was a trip H and I had talked about doing together for years and we kept postponing because life got in the way. Now he is there introducing another woman to them and having a grand vacation while I am figuring out how I will pay my rent and kids' tuition next month...

After the call I sent my H the following email:

"H,
I asked you specifically if you were alone and you said you were... :-(
Please do find a way to call me on my cell phone while you are abroad because Skype won't work for me anymore. It's too painful and uncomfortable for me - specially with the Walters there, whom I truly love and appreciate as family."

His response:

"Hi I'm sorry.
I was alone and then The Walters walked into the lobby. The lobby is the only place where I could get a strong enough signal.
Please take the high road, and not make this any harder on the kids and me than it has to be. Again I'm sorry they showed up.
I'd like to continue to do Skype. I'll be alone next time if that's what you demand."



I don't want to do Skype. I don't want to see how great of a time he is having with OW... I don't want to see the places they visit or hear my kids asking to say hi to OW. It's way too painful to me.

Am I being vindictive and controlling because I don't want to do Skype? Is it my problem that he didn't make arrangements to have phone service to talk to his kids? He could still do so while he is there. Should I oblige?

I know he thinks the worst of me already, but I want to do what's right. I wish something so seemingly small was not painful, but it is...

[2chiquitos]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's like something always comes up and pours salt over the wound. All I can advise you to do (because it has helped me tremendously) is go to 30 meetings in 30 days. You need to work on detaching.

[needgrace]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((KG)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

i am glad you posted bc i think it is good that you are sharing your challenges and feelings in this safe place.

i do not have any answers for you bc i think the only answer can come from within you, KG. you have shown such courage and strength through this... anyone who could get through childbirth and bringing a new baby home in the midst of all this, is someone who is strong and wise enough to know what they need now.

i am in awe of your courage, KG. you have been thrown so many curveballs... with finances, with OW's time with your kids, and now this trip.. and each time you have fought through and looked to care for your children and to better yourself.

this is yet another opportunity to grow (enough already, right?), but in what way?? is it an opportunity to stand up for you or to face down another hurt... i think the answer can only come from you.

sorry if that seems like i am skirting the question but i really do believe that only you can answer this one.

love you, dear friend.

[labug]

Let them Skype.

I don't think you're being any of those things you say, you're hurting, plain and simple and I get it.

((()))

[Valeska19]

I agree with Bug - although tbh - it REALLY bothers me what he said.

He knows you well and he knows what to say to make you 2nd guess yourself. This is something that you will need to recognize as you go forward in the D process.

If the kids' faces will light up seeing H.. do it for them

Do it for them... and no one else.

((( )))