Not confused, still emotional, getting very angry

[kml]

I think you need to see an attorney and get some idea of what you would likely be able to get in child and spousal support. Even if you don't file, it will help you to know what is reasonable (for instance, if he's already giving you way more than he would have to pay in a divorce, you may not want to rock the boat and may want to delay divorce as long as possible. On the other hand, if he's giving you way LESS that you would likely win in a divorce, you may want to get that ball rolling sooner rather than later.

[BRNR]

Thanks Kml, I have consulted an attorney already, and know that he is giving me about what I would get between spousal and child support.

He did return my email, and stated that he does want to discuss money and the future. Doesn't sound like a positive conversation, so I am going to assume he wants to talk divorce and prepare myself for that. Besides, if he wants to discuss giving me any less, we will have to proceed with the divorce for me to get the spousal support. So I guess it is what it is.

I responded back and told him if he could arrange for us to meet one on one, then we should discuss these matters face to face.

I am sorry to say that if it does come down to the divorce starting that for me, that will be the end of my rope. No more db'ing for me. He has moved way to fast with this entire situation that I feel it will be necessary for me to become the WAS. Not to mention that I refuse to go through mediation. I will be seeking legal counsel to protect my financial future. By the talks of my H, it doesn't seem he is prepared financially to pay for an attorney. I know that once this starts, things will get ugly...should be fun!

But that is me assuming as H really hasn't said the word divorce yet, so maybe things can go either way. I am scared and nervous, and somewhat relieved at the same time. There is movement in my sitch and while Snodderly said you don't get closure just by getting a divorce, for me, this will help me gain closure and secure my future as right now, lets face it, my future outlook still included my H.

I almost feel sorry for him though, as he does not realize that once things go through, he will not be any better off than where he is right now. But the heart wants what the heart wants, and maybe this will give him the freedom he needs to move on with his life.

[job]

BRNR,
The future is not ours to see as we can only live in the present.

I agree w/you that you both need to sit down, face to face, and discuss finances (all of them) as well as see where his head is at at this time. Once you have the time and place, go and allow him to be the one to start the conversation. Listen to what he has to say He may not even raise the issue of divorce, i.e., he may only want to discuss the finances and visitation plans. Prepare yourself and be ready to discuss things w/him. Try to remain calm and not get emotional when discussing the issues w/him. You'll get throught to him better by remaining calm.

I understand where you are coming from about the divorce and no more dbing. Keep in mind, dbing is used in all day to day activities and it shouldn't be considered as the only tool when dealing w/a mlcer. Dbing isn't about winning your spouse back, but about helping you to learn to detach, cope and eventually find your footing to survive and thrive as you walk your own path.

No, you won't get closure (as we think of closure), but you will get some relief and the pressure/weight of the heavy burden of not knowing whether he's returning or not will be removed from your shoulders once a divorce is finalized. It's the unknown that many fear and then tend to remain stuck for a while. I don't see you staying stuck in one position for a long time. I see you as the type of person that plots her course and moves forward. Tread lightly and choose your battles when it comes to what you want in the end.

Your future outlook will still include your h, whether he remains your h or your xh. You have children that will require both parents to attend school activities, graduations, marriages, etc. The only difference may be that you will have moved on to a different life, if he continues down the mlc path and doesn't wake up.

None of them realize that the illusive happiness is never within reach because it is a fantasy. They don't realize that happiness comes from within and they had it all along...just didn't look in the right place. They don't realize what they've lost until it is gone and their spouses have moved on w/their lives. They don't realize that time doesn't stand still for no one and the world is changing each and every day. Mlcers are very sad bunch...they had it all and threw it away.

I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. I do hope that the meeting will go well and you can get some answers to the questions that you've been mulling over for quite some time.

[kml]

Not to mention that I refuse to go through mediation. I will be seeking legal counsel to protect my financial future.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

I went through mediation - we had the mediating attorney, and then both my ex and myself had our own outside attorneys to advise us.

We would meet with the mediator, discuss certain issues, then both go see our own attorneys to discuss. Then we'd come back to another mediation appointment and hash it out.

It helped because his individual attorney could tell him when his expectations were not reasonable, and mine would give me a realistic idea of what I might get if we went to court.

The process wasn't fun, but a heck of a lot better than court (and much cheaper too). We both compromised on a lot of items, and I do believe the end result was pretty fair to both of us.

[BRNR]

Hi Snodderly,

Totally understand what you are saying about the future not being ours to see. But the future is the future. I know I deserve a good one.

We have discussed the finances and visitations when he moved out in December. This is him wanting to renegotiate things. Honestly...everything is really split 50/50, including the kids...so my gut is telling me that this is not going to be a positive conversation.

As far as the divorce speak, I will have to bring it up if he wants to change the financial agreement. As I said, he is giving me about what I would get in alimony and child support combined, but I can't get the alimony portion without filing for the divorce...so there's the rock and hard place.

You are right on db'ing, but I meant in the effort to save my marriage. I will still put forth the efforts to use those skills for detaching and my 180's. which I have grown to love.

And yes, with the divorce, I know I will get a great relief, I know things will be hard, and I will still have all my emotional stuff to deal with, and new problems that will arise, but I am stronger than I was at bomb drop and know I will continue to push through.

My future outlook with h....I hear you, he will still be there, maybe, maybe not. He may run with his new found freedom, but at least my contact with him will be more definitive.

Yes, what he doesn't seem to see is that he thought he would be able to run free from everything...kids, financial obligations, and me. I really do hope he comes through this and sees all that he has lost. It is a shame that they think things will be so easy...just by running away.

Thanks for the prayers...I will need them, I will be doing a lot of my own as well.

[BRNR]

Kml thanks for this.

I wish I knew more about the divorce process, but unfortunately, I am at a loss. That may be what needs to be done, but I guess I won't know until I get there.

And honestly, I just want what is fair, nothing more. Right now we are even, but I hear H speaking as if we aren't. He will be in for a rude awakening to know that in the end he will be in the same position financially that he is now, and for quite some time. But, everyone learns their lessons the hard way, including me.

[AJM]

I really do hope he comes through this and sees all that he has lost. It is a shame that they think things will be so easy...just by running away.

Do you though? Do you really want that for him? To feel the loss he chose? Or is that trying to make yourself feel better? I ask because I think later you'll feel differently. You can't change it either way; he's going to do what he does and it's highly likely he'll feel the loss in a profound way. I've seen that play out many times with people of various ages and walks of life. It's not pretty. It's sad really, and for you, it would mean always seeing that (knowing really.) And that would always leave you with a sad part in your heart. Short term it might make you feel better, but I am challenging you to see further than that. At least I'm trying anyway

As for divorce - you'll have to educate yourself if the time comes. Keep in mind that nobody walks away happy from a divorce or feeling like they got what they deserve. That's the nature of it. Well, except for the lawyers. They always win in these situations. But nobody else does. Nobody else walks away feeling like they got what they deserve. While you want what is fair and equal, he'll feel like you took too much. Or the other way around.

Remember this is not what you asked for, BRNR. While you may not be trying to stick it to him (so to speak), or punish him for his choices, no matter what you do he won't be happy and will blame you. It has nothing to do with you, so your actions won't change that.

When mine left, she took very little. Later, she felt like I didn't pay enough or got too much. She made almost all the choices and I let her club me like a baby seal. She still isn't happy from what I can tell. We don't talk and barely communicate even though she lives three blocks away. She won't even drop my son off at the house and I suspect it's because she can't stand looking at it.

It had very little to do with me, and yet running away didn't buy her happiness. Getting everything she asked for, didn't buy her happiness. Because it is not about the person they blame or run from.

I urge you to rethink some of that when the time is right. Maybe not right now. He is losing a tremendous amount. So are you because of his choices. But he is losing far more in his search for the issues that he is running from.

Something to think about, BRNR. I hope you're well! How's the health front coming along? How's the rest of the family?

Peace,
AJ

[BRNR]

Hi AJ, glad to see you back. I feel a strange connection with your words and have missed them since my situation started progressing last week. Hopefully you were doing something worth while.

My health is status quo...the testing shows problems, but nothing to do right now. I have some follow ups in September to see how things are then. So the health thing is okay at the moment.

My kids are still missing H and have opened up to me more about things. Day by day, things seem to improve, so I am taking it day by day with them. My MLCer still does not talk to them about things when they ask him...all he says is "your Mom doesn't love me anymore"....still after all these months. My s9 tells me all the time, and all I tell him is that H can't know my feelings as they are MY feelings and that I do love his dad very much. Both my sons are still wanting to know why, and I just keep reinforcing that H will have to give them those answers. So round and round we go with that one. Not sure what more I can do other than show them as much love and support that I can.

As far as you calling me out...I have actually thought about this for a long time. Yes, I do want H to realize what he has lost, and not to be vindictive or mean, but more in the aspect of that maybe one day, he would come home because of this realization. All is not lost, until both don't want it. And for me, should H recognize that, just maybe, maybe, my marriage could be restored. We had a great marriage, one that I would want again. Sure there were problems, but what marriage doesn't. So, it is not to make me feel better, I am on the losing end too. H doesn't see that I am losing anything but him, he has specifically said so. and no, there are no winners. But the only thing we can do is pickup the peices of the losing situation and move forward, however that may be.

[BRNR]

So, H wants to meet on Sunday. My plan of action is to listen and validate.

Unfortunately, because he has stated it is going to be about finances, I will be in the position that if he should decide to give me any less money than he is already providing, I will be forced to file the divorce to be able to obtain spousal and child support. My question is should I make him aware of that by the end of the conversation, or should I just simply do it.

I am not doing it for punishment. The decision is strictly for financial reasons as I have to think about myself and our children first. Any advice on the best way to handle this?

[AJM]

My thoughts? Just because he said it's about finances, doesn't make it so. And you should always put your children first - but no sense in thinking about telling him. I would think it is assumed, no?

Question - why does your H think you no longer love him? Or at least, why is he telling the kids that? Have you asked him that question before? I apologize if you have covered that before, but I don't think you covered it in those words before.

Glad the health issues are working themselves out. Wish it was faster to healthiness, but glad it's moving in that direction. Also glad to hear the kids are opening up to you about all of it. That's a good thing. Really good although I realize it's not easy.

Peace,
AJ