My WAW - coming to terms with it all!

[WAW_SC]

Are you trying to justify doing nothing new b/c "it's too late"
or are you confusing detachment with Not caring? They are not the same.



One of he biggest fears that I have is that any effort to do an act of service will make my wife angry as she will pressured that I am just trying to get back with her. So i guess you are right about being careful about what it is I actually do for my wife so that it doesnt come across this way.
For eg, during the wedding, we went out to a club after the reception was over with some friends. At the club i went to get some water and grabbed a glass for my W. When i brought it over to her, she hesitated to take it and did not seem impressed, but it was an honest and automatic gesture of grabbing something non alcoholic during a long night of drinking. She tried to palm the glass off to someone else, but eventually took it anyway. I know it doesnt seem like much but it was this reaction that makes me cautious of doing sincere acts of service.
I truly believe that I did give her words of affirmation, encouragement and love. I would express myself clearly to her and compliment her on her looks, he efforts around the house and always thank her is she cooked dinner, cleaned etc. I believe i was good at that but it would soemtimes wash over her, like she didnt believe it herself? Not sure. I tried to encourage her to do more stuff for herself but she used to hesitate a lot, and find reasons why she shouldnt go for a run in the mornings, or take saturday off on her own to do whatever she liked. This was an incredibly frustrating part of our relationship because I really wanted her to do things for herself, to get in touch with herself again, but I think she just felt this was more pressure from me and would sometimes try and blame me for not putting herself first.

BTW, I am looking forward to your help about the apology, but you are right it must be done at the right time and way.

[WAW_SC]

"applaud loudly for the 1% of positives she does". Sounds gimmicky and it is NOT easy to do, but it helps.

Do it without any expectations of reciprocity and make that clear by either writing it in a quick note or text or saying it on your way out the door. That way she'll know you were not standing there hoping for "payback".


Can you explain this a little better? If she does something that is helpful, and I say " i really appreciate your help" or whatever, do i then have to back it up by saying that I dont expect anything in return?
I'm sorry 25yrsmlc, i might have missed a valuable lesson here.

Also, is getting a DB coach worth it? I imagine that the best thing about it is that they can tailor my goals/ strategies towards my specific situation?

[25yearsmlc]

"applaud loudly for the 1% of positives she does". Sounds gimmicky and it is NOT easy to do, but it helps.

Do it without any expectations of reciprocity and make that clear by either writing it in a quick note or text or saying it on your way out the door. That way she'll know you were not standing there hoping for "payback".


Can you explain this a little better? If she does something that is helpful, and I say " i really appreciate your help" or whatever, do i then have to back it up by saying that I dont expect anything in return?


No.

You just leave or drive off or say it on your way out. You say/do it in a way that NO ONE could think you were hoping for feedback/payback. Same for the glass of water.

And that's not what I mean so much as mowing the lawn BEFORE she comes home and then not being here when she arrives. No way for her to thank you, you did it b/c it needed doing. NOT to "get her" or "impress her" but to do it FOR her or FOR THE FAMILY, b/c hey, "that's what men do..."

I'm sorry 25yrsmlc, i might have missed a valuable lesson here.

Also, is getting a DB coach worth it?

YES

it's the best money I ever spent AND btw, I got about 15 of their sessions so YEAH I put my money where my mouth is. Figured divorce costs more...

but then, you might learn faster than me.
Let's hope so!


I imagine that the best thing about it is that they can tailor my goals/ strategies towards my specific situation?

exactly. Assuming you get the right one (I don't know of a "bad one")

all I can say is my DB coach, "Vernetta", was a Godsend. Her advice felt tailor made for me. I'd write down her sayings and put them in a summarized form and carry them around.

She helped me more than any single thing...I credit her with a lot.

[WAW_SC]

Just had a good conversation with my W on the phone. I could feel she was in a good vibe, she had just gone for a run and i had sent her a message with a pic of our S in his new soccer gear that I bought for him today. He looked so cute. His first soccer training is tomorrow...very excited.
ANyway, we talked about our boys and shared some observations about them which was great, the stuff i miss, those little everyday talks. It was so nice to hear her in a positive tone.
I asked her about her run and gave some positive vibes about how quickly she did it. I remember i used to do this when I lived at home, i realise now i wasnt short of encouragement. But I also wasnt short of critical comments towards her as well. Thats the stuff i regret and thats the stuff she remembers. It was so unnecessary, some of the things i said but I own that now and I am not hiding from that truth. I realise now that it wasnt about her, it was about me and the issues i was having with myself.
Hindsight....wonderful thing.

Anyway, it ended well and i will see her tomorrow for changeover. For now, i will be thankful for this good phone call and continue on my mission.

[WAW_SC]

I have been thinking about where my wife is currently on a mental and emotional level and taking in her actions and gestures of the last few weeks. (refusing help from me, taking her ring off, being independant etc)
I really believe she is on a journey to discover her own self and inner strength again and I dont see this as a bad thing. Unfortunately the difficulties in our M and my over-reaction and threat of divorce was the catalyst for her to question what she wants in life. I dont blame her. She doesnt want a shitty marriage and tension at home.

I hope she can find that amazing, strong and independant woman again, the one i fell in love with and inspired me, gave me strength and brought so much optimism and love to my life and those around her. I think somewhere in the last few years that woman dissapeared behind motherhood, careers, moving homes and a husband who didnt speak her love languages or pay her enough respect. Understanding this helps make this whole sitch somehow make sense and easier to deal with.

[25yearsmlc]

I have been thinking about where my wife is currently on a mental and emotional level and taking in her actions and gestures of the last few weeks. (refusing help from me, taking her ring off, being independant etc)

focus on the only person here working on the marriage...the person you want to work on and change, which is NOT HER but you. Back to you.,..


I really believe she is on a journey to discover her own self and inner strength again and I dont see this as a bad thing. Unfortunately the difficulties in our M and my over-reaction and threat of divorce was the catalyst for her to question what she wants in life. I dont blame her. She doesnt want a shitty marriage and tension at home.
[s]
I hope she can find that amazing, strong and independant woman again, the one i fell in love with and inspired me, gave me strength and brought so much optimism and love to my life and those around[/s] her. I think somewhere in the last few years that woman dissapeared behind motherhood, careers, moving homes and a husband who didnt speak her love languages or pay her enough respect. Understanding this helps make this whole sitch somehow make sense and easier to deal with.

okay then...so, back to YOU. What's new? How are your GAL going?

What are your 180s? Be specific please...

[WAW_SC]

A lot of my 180's involve my wife. By that i mean my behaviour towards her, the things I didnt do, the respect I didnt show her and the kindness I could have given her.
Therefore 180's would be-

- Show her respect unconditionally regardless of what is happening This would mean letting her go, letting her make her own choices in life about our marriage and supporting them regardless of how hard it may be for me.

- BE kind to her no matter how difficult things are or how frustrating this is.

- Rid myself of all the unnecessary anger and learn how to difuse it. Stop sweating the small stuff

- Learn how to forgive and move on from arguments, dont harbour negative thoughts after it.

- HAve a PMA, dont be automatically pessimistic. Half glass full, not half empty


Are these real 180's? or are they too specific to her.
My concern is they wont be acknowledged or seen...the walls around her heart are so high and she is so clear and definite in her decision to walkaway from this marriage, its hard to see how anything will get through.
Having said that there is also always room to be more respectful to others in general as well being more kind.

[25yearsmlc]

A lot of my 180's involve my wife. By that i mean my behaviour towards her, the things I didnt do, the respect I didnt show her and the kindness I could have given her.
Therefore 180's would be-

- Show her respect unconditionally regardless of what is happening This would mean letting her go, letting her make her own choices in life about our marriage and supporting them regardless of how hard it may be for me.

Give me a specific example of one type of event in which your behavior will be different.

Also beware of "unconditionally" loving someone and not having boundaries. IOW, the terms are often misused. "Unconditional love" does NOT mean you put up with everything they do or that you just "take it".

It means you don't judge them or mind read negatively or project onto them --your fears and insecurities and that you accept them as they are, not "honing their flaws" to fit YOUR wants.

IOW, "unconditional love" does NOT mean you "love their actions"-even when they cheat or hit or get drunk, when they're supposed to take the kids to their games...

make sense?
.


- BE kind to her no matter how difficult things are or how frustrating this is.


yeah this^^-- is kind of a given. No offense, but I mean, anyone can be kind when things are going smooth...it's when it's hard, that it counts.


- Rid myself of all the unnecessary anger and learn how to difuse it. Stop sweating the small stuff

THIS^^^ goal is a major one & it's mandatory.

Yet it will take focus, guidance, emotional bravery and strength, NEW tools, and TIME...

where and how are you going to get these? You need a plan...soon.

- Learn how to forgive and move on from arguments, dont harbour negative thoughts after it.

same comments as above. Deciding to forgive is one step in a series of steps that = the process of forgiving.

Give up on the need to be "right"...(I now see it as a disease. The 'need to be right" or declared the winner, is such a destructive trait.) But I think you get that now.


- HAve a PMA, dont be automatically pessimistic. Half glass full, not half empty


This^^ is absolutely a major paradigm shift to make!!

It'll make YOU happier and those around you will be happier and feel more loved as well. (OMG how important is that??)

Remember too, that being pessimistic is NOT fun to be around. It's a drag...it often is alienating too.

You'll have more friends, & more company by being positive.

A FEW relationships may end or become uncomfortable b/c some negative folks like to be around other negatives. Or they don't like the contrast between their negativity and their surroundings when others are happy. (Ever SEE a negative whiner actually seem to be upset about someone else feeling happy? I have...it's strange but not rare)

I found that after I attended "EE", which is the "Essential Experience" workshop, (check out their website. I don't recall where you live, but it's a life changing workshop that I attended, then h attended, Power of Now, Autumn Leaves, Navy Guy and other DBers have also attended, with all of us loving it).

ANYHOW, after EE, I more or less dropped a friend who was always bringing me down. She was a negative spiral whenever we'd talk. Whoever had hurt her recently, or long ago...she'd bring it up again...

No I didn't "do anything" official to end the r. I just had less & less time for her and noticed her negaqtivity a LOT more than I had before.

I found myself attracted to happier, more upbeat people. I liked being around them, and by being around them, I became more like them.

So it helps to have role models of positive living so you can SEE what it looks like, (which I fear you may not know) and you will find it much easier to be like that.

IOW, learning to stop doing bad negative things is important, of course.

But most of us will revert to what we know in times of crisis, if we don't have positive alternatives or other behaviors to implement.

We can know what NOT to do...but still revert to it if we don't know what TO DO instead...

So ask, and then find out, how do healthy, happier people resolve conflicts when they feel strongly about an issue?"

What does that thing called "conflict resolution" look like? Is there always a doormat in the r?

(the answer is, "no"...)

Learn new positive behaviors. Find role models and read and go to a workshop if you can.

Get in touch with your faith if you are a believer. And if you are, then learn to pray and learn to enjoy it. Find comfort in your faith. Not shame...


Are these real 180's? or are they too specific to her.


I'd say yes they are 180s to her BUT they are also core changes... being less negative and more positive are major personality changes. Learning not to criticize or see things pessimistically is a world view to change.

I am SURE you'll be glad you made these changes, but if they are 180s, so be it.


My concern is they wont be acknowledged or seen...




(SIGH)

So what if they are not acknowledged?

I mean, IDEALLY she'd slap her forehead and say "OMG YOU ARE A NEW MAN &YOU ARE NOW ALL I WANT"...but realistically,

you must stop doing this as a tactic to get her attention.

These are big changes that are supposed to be real, actual changes IN YOU, b/c you want to become a better man.

If it's only to get her back, it's not authentic. It's tactical.

There's a huge difference.

She'll sense it, she won't trust the changes and she certainly won't change her feelings if she picks up on how you "just want her to notice and give you credit and hurry up and praise you for the changes...did she see??? Did she??"....

do you know how UNattractive this^^ sounds now?

The first part of your post was great. Then this...NEEDINESS of yours to be praised and "paid" for the changes when in reality

you are trying to become the man you ought to have been already...and now you want her to "see and acknowledge" your changes that so far, you are only talking about

but already are worried about not getting credit for...

geez that IS negative thinking right there...undermining you already!



the walls around her heart are so high and she is so clear and definite in her decision to walkaway from this marriage, its hard to see how anything will get through.

well geez, you wanna not bother trying? I mean, where's the pay off if she doesn't come back?

oh...you mean becoming a better man? oh...that....

(do you hear yourself?--this is an area for you to SEE & CHANGE ASAP)


Having said that there is also always room to be more respectful to others in general as well being more kind.

uh yep!

[WAW_SC]

Hey 25yrsmlc

Thanks. It's confronting to realise how easily i slip back into that negative thinking. Also, I am finding it hard to separate the desire to change for me and for her to see these changes.

Tactical..I am ashamed to admit that you are right. I was being tactical without recognising it. I Dont want to be tactical, i dont want to trick my wife. When I left the home i saw my wife a week later I told her that i was not happy with the person i had become and that i was ashamed of the way i behaved. I told her that i was going to make changes to be a better man. I saw a counsellor which helped me acknowledge some of the challenges i faced.

What have i done to be a better man?
I have done some things, i am taking better care of myself, have dramatically reduced my alcohol intake and have begun giving my love and time to my two boys.
I am trying to learn patience, but it is not easy. I am trying to change my negative thoughts, but that is also not easy but i do recognise that if i can do this then things will begin to click into place.
I have enrolled in a meditation and self development course. I am looking to some anger management courses as well.

I think your point about finding people who are positive thinkers and deal with conflict successfully is excellent. I am afraid of reverting back to old ways in times of crisis, i never want to go back to that way of thinking and feeling. I can rise above this and become the man i want to be.

Thanks for your patience 25yrsmlc...

[WAW_SC]

I have been offered a place in a "managing anger" course which i think i could get a lot out. Unfortunately it overlaps with my night of looking after the boys.
I have asked W if she would be willing to swap her wednesday night with the boys with Tuesday which might work better as S5 has soccer training wendedays which i plan to take him to. I have not told her what the course but will tell her if she asks. I dont want to lie. I did say that if she did not feel comfortable with the idea, then I would be happy to leave it for another time or would be willing to listen any concerns she may have. This in itself is a 180 for me as previously i would have just booked the course and assumed she would work around it as I would have thought that it was a good thing for me therefore a good thing for everyone.

The dilema is that I this is something that i would like to do , a positive change 180 for me but it will impact on my W and the boys a little. Is this a selfish request? It only goes for 8 weeks and although it is about making changes in ME but it might works against me in a way.

I have not heard back from her yet. Will wait and see