Suckerpunch stage 3

[25yearsmlc]

yikes Left...

I put my words in red and his words in black...

[LBH_LC]

Oh, I'm colorblind. That would explain it.

[25yearsmlc]

Oh, I'm colorblind. That would explain it.

well then I need to learn to do quotes better OR use a different color. Mach1 says it helps to use BLUE

instead of RED...

does it? Honestly, being color blind is a guy thing (I think that's literally true) and it never occurs to me.

I'll work on remembering that...but what a weird way to see the world. Guess you never "see red" so that idiom won't apply to you...yay...

[labug]

SP,

I read this yesterday and it spoke to me. It also made me think of you.

The moment you get angry while arguing with someone is the moment you stop striving for the truth and start trying to prove yourself superior. Pay attention to how loud you start to talk.. the higher the volume, the more attached you are to being "right".

There's a lot of space to make a R with someone between right and wrong.

[AnotherStander]

SP- 25 really made the points well so I'll just add that I know all about catastrophic thinking. I like to wallow in it! Sometimes I feel like Eeyore on Winnie the Pooh, LOL! Early in my sitch I was convinced that if W left it would be the end of life as we know it for both her and me, and the kids too. We'd both suffer huge financial loss. The kids would suffer in school and at home. Their grades would plummet and they'd develop a new fatalistic view of marriage and life in general. It was a future that scared the hell out of me. I think all the anxiety attacks I started having were a direct result of my fear of the future. So here I am, almost 7 months since W moved out. Has it hurt us financially? Yeah, but not to the extent I expected, we've both cut back on some splurges but not all. The kids continue to do outstanding in school and while they're bothered by the sitch, they're content and happy and doing great. I've been off of anti-depressants for over a month now and have had zero anxiety and zero depression. ALL of my fears were unfounded. ALL of my worries and anxiety and depression were dragging me into a place that was preventing me from detaching and moving forward and allowing my W to move forward.

You've got to let go of the fear and the catastrophic attitude. It took the anti-depressants to shake me out of that and focus on what really mattered- making the BEST of my situation. Being the BEST father to my kids, the BEST friend to my W, the BEST man I can be. A man with an optimistic view of the future, with an abundance of PMA, a man who is confident, secure, content and independent.

I think maybe, deep inside, you want your W to fail. I think I did too. I wanted her to be "taught a lesson" that she cannot live life without me because she NEEDS me for everything from fixing the toilet to managing her finances. But I was the one that needed to be taught a lesson, and that is that NO ONE on this green earth NEEDS me. People die every day and those they leave behind survive and thrive without them, and so it is with our spouses when they move on from the marriage. If I were to die tomorrow I'm sure I would be grieved, but I am not a necessary cog in the universe. It will not stop running just because I'm removed from the picture.

So, recognize your place in life, it isn't to be the means of support of others, they don't need you for that. Your W doesn't need you, your kids don't need you. Be content with that. So what IS this thing called life? I'm still trying to figure that out myself, but at the core it is to LIVE it and ENJOY it! People don't NEED you, so make them WANT you!! Be a life force to others! Be someone attractive, magnetic, happy! DRAW others to you! Be that and your W just might be drawn to you as well!!

well then I need to learn to do quotes better OR use a different color. Mach1 says it helps to use BLUE

instead of RED...

does it?

I'm colorblind too, you started out with color 990000 red which was easier for us to see, but then you switched to 660000 red which I can barely tell from black. But blue, you can never go wrong with blue

[swoop]

Thanks for the support and insight. A lot of what was said really rings home for me. I know so much of this falls on me, but I feel that some of it may have been a little harsh. Perhaps I portrayed something in my previous posts that suggested I was more spiteful or vindictive than I am. I have not asked my W to move out because of her actions regarding other man. I have not tried to control them. I simply made it clear that it will not be rubbed in my face on my property. I really don't think that is being out of line.

I know I have some issues with anger controlling me. Although, I would say that I am a very normal individual in that regard. It is not like I am screaming, raging, or putting my fist through the wall. I get hurt, I revert to anger to control that hurt. Do I need to work on that, yes I cearly do. I realize it, and I will try to make a conscious effort to better myself by working on it.

A lot of you have pointed out how hard of a person I was to live with and how "poor W" just couldn't put up with it any longer. That very well may be true, but W was NOT an innocent victim. I agree that I could have done many many things better, but some things I did an OUTSTANDING job at as a husband, father and friend. My W also had similar traits, some things she was great at and some things in her really contributed to the demise of our marriage. Now, I realize I am the only one who wanted to save our marriage and therefore I was the only one who could really make the changes to do so, but I still don't feel it is fair to make me out to be this horrible individual that brow beat and controlled my W into submission....because I didn't.

The more this goes forward, the more I realize that my W has really REALLY canged. Perhaps she is doing it for self survival, but it is clear to me that something has switched gears inside of her. She simply is not the same person she once was. I am not referring to the way her and I interact, but literally in her overall personailty with everyone. She is swimming in her own mind and actions. She is making every effort to distance herself from her friends and family, but at the same time wallowing in self pity that she is not being treated with open arms by everyone she used to associate with.

There was a point this weekend where a large group of friends and family were sitting around a campfire. W came and joined us. I was cordial. She interacted with D. She chatted. I chatted. Slowly, every single person left. They all later told me it was because they were uncomfotable around W. Towards the end of the night, it was only the hosts of the campfire, along with me, W and D sitting there. W laughed so hard at my jokes. She engaged me. She engaged everyone, just like she would have a year ago. The only difference was, she told me she was serving me with Divorce papers only 2 days before. I had to excuse myself and leave with D. It is just too strange for me. It is like she wants to continue the life we had, but be free of all burdens of being involved with me directly. She wants to be friends with me on her terms, not truly a friend for me, but she wishes for me to be a friend to her. That is simply something I cannot offer. I cannot be a doormat that is reminded constantly about how she is leaving me to move on with her life.

I hate that my focus is spearheaded directly back at W and Mariage. I am honestly trying to GAL and DB to the best of my ability. It is just so difficult for me right now. The constant "WEIRD" interactions with W are just spinning me around and around. It is spinning everyone we know. She is trying SOOOOOO hard to portray that she is happy and content with her decisions, but it is clear that she is about to lose control. I honestly feel she is possibly getting close to a breakdown of some sorts. I just have to stay strong for D and for myself. I can't allow this to destroy me as well.

[AnotherStander]

A lot of you have pointed out how hard of a person I was to live with and how "poor W" just couldn't put up with it any longer. That very well may be true, but W was NOT an innocent victim. I agree that I could have done many many things better, but some things I did an OUTSTANDING job at as a husband, father and friend.

I understand what you're saying and I've felt a little of that myself on my threads. People ask us here what we think we did wrong in the M, so we tell them. They never ask what we did RIGHT in the M or what our spouses did wrong, so our threads end up being a long laundry list of our faults while making our spouses look like pure and innocent victims.

Of course the honest truth is both spouses failed in the M. Most of the people that post on these forums sound like good, honest, hard-working individuals. I seriously doubt people like this carry a 95% burden of fault, it's probably more like 50%. Honestly I think what you and me and many others here are guilty of is being guys. We do the typical guy stuff like shut down when our wives "communicate" with (nag) us. We try to fix them instead of validate when they talk about their problems. We tend to leave the M on autopilot while focusing on our kids, chores and careers. We can complain all evening and then expect to shut the bedroom door and have wild sex that our W enjoys as much as us. We try and control the finances and decisions because we think that's what they want. Then they drop the bomb and we discover that all those things we thought were unimportant or not even on the radar were driving them farther and farther away.

But, they're not here working on the M, we are. So we have to take our lumps for what we did wrong (whether we realized they were wrongs or not) and change ourselves and move forward.

but I still don't feel it is fair to make me out to be this horrible individual that brow beat and controlled my W into submission....because I didn't.

Are you sure? Because I did. I never knew it, I certainly didn't do it on purpose and in fact the things I did that caused this I thought were beneficial things. I made the decisions, I controlled the finances, I thought it was what she WANTED!! But those are the very things that pushed her out the door. And I see a lot of that in you too. But don't be confused about this, no one is accusing you of being a horrible person. If you had hurt your wife intentionally, then you would be a horrible person, but I don't think you did and I know I didn't. So that doesn't make us horrible, just ignorant. Now we know better, and now we can be different.

Slowly, every single person left. They all later told me it was because they were uncomfotable around W.

I'm still sensing something here that doesn't sound right. They're "uncomfortable" because of what exactly? Her sitting around laughing at your jokes? Or because you've been telling them things that make them see your W in a certain way? There are hints of this smear campaign in your thread, I just sense that you started the ball rolling and it's been feeding itself ever since. IE, you may no longer be actively talking to all of them about your W's faults, but you've done it enough that it's self-sustaining now.

W laughed so hard at my jokes. She engaged me. She engaged everyone, just like she would have a year ago. The only difference was, she told me she was serving me with Divorce papers only 2 days before. I had to excuse myself and leave with D.

I don't blame you!! How dare she sit there and laugh at your jokes!! What is wrong with her?? Seriously, getting up and leaving her there is sooooo not detached.

She wants to be friends with me on her terms, not truly a friend for me, but she wishes for me to be a friend to her. That is simply something I cannot offer. I cannot be a doormat

Being her friend has nothing to do with being a doormat. Are you wanting to keep the way home paved and smooth? Then be her friend.

[swoop]

The reason why everyone in our group feels uncomfortable, is because W expresses her (what most people consider weak) reasoning for leaving the marriage, for not even trying and for putting our daughters wellbeing SECOND...hers first. That isn't some propoganda that I put out. It is simply something that everyone is seeing happen. Another very uncomfortable situation is this OM. They both say it is completely innocent, but some of our friends are family memebers with this man, and they feel that their interactions are very suspicious as well....to the point where our friends will decline any involvement in activities where W and OM are both present.....it is just an awkward, unhealthy situation.


Tonight got the best of me. I have honestly had it this week with W playing the role of victim and over projecting her false happiness. last week, She threatened to serve me with D papers on monday at 1:30 pm, so I actually called her out on it when she came to pick up D. I KNOW that is about as anti-DB as I possibly could have been, but I could not fight off the urge to ask her where the papers were when she was pulling out of the drive. I asked, "don't you have something for me?". Her response was, Am I supposed to? I said "YES, you said you had some divorce papers for me to look over". I was just angry about the games. She knew exactly what she had promised me when I was emotional and vulnerable the other day. She said she would bring the papers by later this evening....I feel I am through with this! I just want to rip it off like a bandaid so I can start to heal. I need to move on. I need to clear my head and my heart.

[swoop]

She sent me an email.....as expected her terms are way out of my grasp. Now the real fun begins. How do I go about DBing and still protect myself?

[swoop]

I replied to her with my terms, that were drastically different than hers. I also let her know that as of today, the financial support is stopped and she has 30 days to find housing.....for obvious reasons she was NOT happy about this and once again reminded me that "we will NEVER get back together". That is beginning to sound like a broken record to me.

She told me that she plans on moving back into the house, not because she wants to, but because she has to. Should I let her? I mean I feel I need to act in MY BEST INTEREST now....DBing is going to have to take a back seat to my own personal future. Any input here is greatly appreciated.

I will post a copy of the terms we discusssed.