That is my concern. I feel just as you that spending time with a counselor (unless VERY pro marriage or religious based) will possibly cause her to look at her feelings as her guide.
How many times have we not felt like doing something only to find that, once we got started on the task, it wasn't as bad as we thought? Or how many times did your spouse ask you to go to a party that you didn't want to go to and you begrudgingly went and found later that you really had a good time?
Spending all our time looking at our feelings is bass ackwards!
Couldn't agree with you more, Finder. I know for a fact that my W is very easily swayed by what other people tell her, and if MC says, h"ey, it's okay to D if it's wha'll make YOU happy, then you should do it and I'll help make it easier for you" then, heck, she's helping eliminate my guilt in what I'm doing!
Things were already heading in that direction, and even as I'm throwing on the brakes of the locomotive, I don't need some supposedly well-meaning but misguided MC greasing the tracks...
M41 W42 M 12 T 15 S10, D9, twin Ds 3 1/2 BD 1/2/2013 Living as roommates Working on D agreement w. mediator 5/13
I hear you. It's just an ingredient. And you're right. It makes no difference to me. My course stays the same. I just hope that some day she comes back to herself. Okay...fair enough but since we ALL change/grow or evolve we also have to adapt...right?
Spent pretty much the whole day with her today. It actually went pretty well. A few opportunities arose when during conversation, she would stab me for stuff from the past. It's like she wants to remind me of things just to make sure I don't forget what I did. I know it's just her expression of just how much she was hurt by me. great insight. Have you mentioned the desire to look to the future "from this day forward" or do you feel it's too soon? (I still say the person who put those words into our marriage vows was a genius).
A couple of things I did differently today:
Last night, I moved back into our bedroom. Today I asked her what she thought about it.
yet more r talk, and more temperature taking and since she had not said anything when you were there, that means she did NOT want to discuss it. Back off...! She didn't say anything. She just made some sort of sound kinda like hmmm. I didn't ask again. She didn't ask me to move back out. I'll take it as a good sign.
and say no more, please...Actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than words. Stop asking and needing her approval or feedback. When you keep asking, it is as if You want to cement a decision from her when she is NOT sure how she feels... OR maybe she thinks she feels okay about it OR wants to but has fears... but by pushing for more- you may get a lot less.
.
We spent a lot of time shopping today, and it was a perfect opportunity to live my new code. My new code says its not about me, it's about others. My wife included. I express my opinion when asked. I have no expectations. If others want something different, that's what I'm happy with.
as long as you are authentically saying your opinions and then being able to adapt, that's great. Someday, not now but someday, you'll be better able to make sure your own needs are met...so don't put yourself into a position of being a martyr and then building resentment or a sense of entitlement. Okay?
Today, I made lots of physical contact with my wife. She never pulled away. I know that this is one of her languages of love. It was one thing she expressed to me verbally when we first started having problems. She told me that she still wanted hugs, kisses and physical touch from me. SO glad she communicated this^^ to you AND you listened and changed accordingly...wow, it's like it's working!!
Things got worse and we both started feeling uncomfortable with it. Today, I turned it back on and I met no resistance. That was good. yes it is
I know that this is small. It may not mean anything. She may have wanted it, or she may have just been tolerating it. all i know is she didn't pull away. i expect now that she will probably do as the other WAS's have done and pull back.
maybe yes, maybe no. Do NOT go farther than before, or retreat until if and when you see where things go...
but see if the same actions yield similar results...and stay there for a bit so you can both adjust.
A lot of the time, as soon as the guy gets a green light for holding hands, which is EMOTIONALLY comforting to a woman, he'll see it as a green light to a whole lot more...and that can be emotionally threatening to an emotionally wounded woman.
Take your time...let her feel relaxed and safe with the new you. let her trust that you want HER as your mate and friend before you go to the lust part...make sense? She felt mistreated and by your description, it was not insane of her. So you are repairing that...okay?
As I write this, she is headed out with her friends again. It's 9pm. They will more than likely be out until the clubs close. I'm here at home with our two girls. I have a choice to make. Will I choose to obsess about my wife, or will I choose to hold my head high, believe in myself and what I am and have to offer someone as a mate and friend and father.
I choose the latter.
I hope the rest of you all do the same.
exactly....and when you KNOW for sure, truly, that you have become the best Pathfinder you can become and that your changes are sincere, authentic AND PERMANENT,
then hold your head high and go in peace.
Leave the results up to God.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
So, 25, if I understand correctly, you think that MC is the wrong way to go? It's ironic because I just mentioned to our MC last week that I thought it wasn't working in our case since all it seems to do is validate her feelings of wanting to get out, while relieving her of the guilt of what it will mean to break up her... OUR...family and start over again. I think MCs are best at making things as smooth as possible for separating/divorcing and NOT at finding a solution to very workable problems.
I've also been seeing quite a bit about detaching on this forum, but I can't seem to locate a dedicated thread about tips and hints for detaching. Perhaps it's just implied in the whole DB concept, but I can't recall seeing it all laid out as a process to be followed.
25, I've seen a number of your posts, and I gather from your signature that you successfully busted your D. You sound like a very intelligent, capable person (buttering, buttering) so maybe you could take a look at my thread and give me any feedback you might have? . (Or is actively soliciting advice from other forum members frowned uppn? If so, my apologies as a newbie to this BB and a disheartened man fighting an uphill battle.)
Keep a PMA everybody. It's always darkest before the dawn.
it's not frowned upon to ask for input. For awhile we had a buddy system wherein veterans would "adopt" a newbie
but it gets complicated with so many threads and I can only follow so many or I get confused by parties in similar BUT NOT identical situations. PLus some folks start more than one thread, which IS frowned upon b/c invariably they omit details in some threads that are relevant, and it's very hard to follow their stories then.
Always put a lot of info in your signature block to refresh everyone's memory on who you are and what happened.
Yes I DBd and we are still married. In 2006 I gave us a 10% chance of staying married. I had a Godsent DB coach and she helped me a great deal. I can't stress that enough. I also found a solution based therapist, eventually, who also supported me in a tough time. But even he was quicker to say "you can leave your marriage and stop DBIng and I'd suppport you." He said that a number of times but he also left room for me to keep trying...which I did.
I posted just recently about a development with our older children b/c I feel that i really overlooked their experience, in that I assumed the reconciliation between h and I would somehow "filter" to them...meaning that they'd forgive if I did. H and I attended Retrovaille and it only recently occurred to me that they did not, which means they did NOT see the breakthroughs in h, that I witnessed...
But that's not a topic for HERE...and we don't want to hijack someone's thread, (which is frowned upon) so yes I'll look at your situation when I get a chance.
Most people who post here have the odds against them.
But people who come here and DO what this program teaches, this solution based approach to problems, actually DO improve as individuals....there's a huge opportunity to turn your life around here
even if it does not save your present marriage...it will aid you in your interactions with your spouse as a co parent, and maybe as their friend and someday maybe as their spouse again...and all of that's worthwhile.
Plus the only real way to repair your marriage is to start repairing you and how you relate to your spouse.
Which is why the focus is SO geared towards ourselves first...also b/c you have NO control over your wife so the sooner you get that, the faster your progress o your work, will happen.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Wife has an IC session scheduled for tomorrow. Not really sure what she wants to get out of it. I don't think she is either. I really think that she's just looking for a "professional" to validate her desire to get a divorce.
I've been keeping up with the physical touch over the past few days. Putting my arm around her, kissing her cheek, petting her hair, etc. Nothing overtly sexual in nature. She doesn't pull away. A couple of times I sensed that she didn't want it, so backed off. A few times, it seemed as though she welcomed it. Last night in bed, I moved my foot over onto hers before we went to to sleep. She stayed in contact with me. Is this a sign of something good? Who knows? Only she does. But she says nothing and I don't ask.
A few nights ago she went out with her friends. She came back home at 3:15am. She never said where they went. I didn't ask. I did backslide and let my frustration show when I expressed irritation at being awakened at 5:30am when she got back home from dropping her girlfriend off. She told me that another one of her friends doesn't catch any crap from her husband. (That may be because her husband is well aware of the fact that she isn't happy here and wants to move back to Europe.)
I told her that I felt I was much improved over how I was this past summer. And that I was hoping we could work things out between us. She told me she hoped we could too. I believed what she said. I do know that as you all say that was how she felt at that moment.
Wife was on the phone tonight with that girlfriend. They were talking about what kind of careers they want to pursue. Three of the girls are considering going to school. I mentioned something about their husbands having the ability to make it easier for them to go to school. My wife came back with "it might be easier if we split up and we had shared custody because then you would have the kids half the time." I thought that was a pretty selfish statement, but it pretty much goes right along with the selfishness I have been experiencing over the past 6 months.
Well, I knew that the baby steps that I thought I was witnessing might mean nothing, and that she may run away after getting closer to me. I'm still in the MBR, so that's good.
Looking for signs of good things, but trying not to set myself up for getting crushed.
oh boy P2.. I wish I was able to offer something here... ((HUGS)).. Maybe she is having an off day & felt like buddying up and validating with her friend. She is obviously confused if she still sleeps with you.
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
I pray she chooses you guys too... but, why rub her feet? Doesn't she want space? DONT TEMP CHECK !!! Sets clock back to zero, remember?... how long has it been since R talk/temp check?
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
PF, not sure i have much to add except that I have felt the same way that you are feeling now. W and I are getting along better but she shows no real signs of affection. And I also know what you mean about hoping to not get crushed.
M 37 W 36 T22 M14 D8 D4 8/2012 distanced BD 11/2012 (likely wants D. Feelings have changed.) W move out date: June 8th.
I've been giving wife space for 6 months. Just changed things up because there really has been no improvement in our situation even with me giving space. My job has me gone half the month anyways. How much space does a person need?
I know one of her LL is physical touch. This week I started giving that to her again. I used to massage her feet for her while we would watch tv. She would ask for me to do it for her because she liked it so much. About a month ago I did it while we were on a ski trip. She mentioned that it was nice. It was like it used to be. Figured I'd do it again for her.
My wife does things with me. Watches tv, eats meals, shops, and even has couples massages with me. But she's stone cold to me emotionally. It's like she's dead inside. It's very strange and quite troubling.
Tried to sleep, but couldn't. I came downstairs to write this our and get it off my chest.
. (Or is actively soliciting advice from other forum members frowned uppn? If so, my apologies as a newbie to this BB and a disheartened man fighting an uphill battle.)