TheUF - Changing gears - Dropping the rope?

[theUF]

You hear a lot about how WAS is in turmoil, but right now I feel like I'm the one in turmoil.

I've been doing great. Last week I didn't even want to meet her(not out of resentment). I took S out of town to the zoo and had a great time, she seemed pretty stunned when she found out. Which, sadly, probably says a bit about my commitment early on...

So anyway, today I helped S pick out a flower and make a card for her. It was a lot of fun, and she was happy to recieve it. She sat down and showed me photos and videos of S. A lot of eye contact. In one of the videos S is talking about daddy that and daddy this, felt pretty good to hear he is thinking about me when I'm not there. She is showing me the pics/vids on her phone, and also gave me access to her Ipad. At BD she locked both of them b/c she couldn't trust me.

She mentioned school again and I asked what her roadmap was and what thoughts she had about it. A lot better conv than last time. She constantly mentions how she has started working out. She mentioned her thoughts about building the house we were supposed to build together. She mentioned several times if I was going to have S on thursday(valentines). I said I was.

In relation to a conv about a mutual friend she said "yeah I mean, if you ever got a new GF I.." On impuls I cut her of with "if?" She corrected to "when.." It was an impuls, but pretty needless, I know.
She then "jokingly" proceeded asking S if daddy has got a new GF several times. He nodded, but of course he didn't understand what she meant. I just ignored it.

So, to sum up. I'm doing great and have been feeling like I'm really moving on. The other day several women initiated conv, smiled or said hello when I was out shopping etc. Good for a confidence boost. Then, our interaction today, and she leaves. And I'm left with a strange feeling in my stomach. A somewhat sad and strange feeling. IDK what it is, or what it means....BAH! IDK where I stand, and I don't really feel like I know where she stands.

[theUF]

Hey guys.

Been a bit quite lately. Partially b/c there hasn't been a lot to report, and also b/c I needed the break from my sitch.

Friends have been consistently asking how things are going and what my thoughts are. Some also say they think there's "something there". Off course that's based merely on what I tell them, and holds no weight to it.

Ex is more balanced now and the anger fits and provocing has mostly stopped. We talk almost exclusively about S, but lately there's been a lot more upbeat chit chat blended in. We have nice talks, but I keep a healthy amount of distance. That's my view of it anyway.

When we do talk she always makes sure to mention everything good going on in her life, and if I mention something good from my life she is always at least equally good. I'm left with the feeling she is constantly trying to impress/one-up me, but that's mindreading. Which of course I never do However I'll admit it's a bit annoying. Is this usual for a WAS?

We got into living arrangements and she tipped me about a place closer to her place. She went of about how the future would look, and I told her there is no point in predicting the future. Life is an open book, and what seems like the future today, may be nothing tomorrow. One can't always act based on what the future MIGHT look like. She agreed and we moved on.

An open book is how I can best describe life at the moment. I have no certain opinion about how I would like my sitch to work out. No expectations. I just know I want to become a better father and person, find out what I want in future relationships and life in general. I've been holding off on serious dating, I would be open for it, but I need this time for myself to work on myself.

I feel more well-balanced, more social and do feel like I'm making progress slow and steady. Looking forward to figuring out what lies next!

[theUF]

So, I could use someones take on the recent events.

On last activity the three of us had, Ex was acting somewhat usual;

Expressing how great her life is.
Asking if I notice her good shape(i.e what? don't you look at me?)
Some touching and teasing, but no "reaching out".

I doubt everything could be THAT fine and dandy.

So we have a nice time, and after we stop to discuss arrangements with S, which this time proved to be a bit difficult. I wanted to exchange days, but she said I would lose the days in that case as she was not willing to lose days herself. I said I'll miss him, but fair enough.

But, then her eyes started wetting and she seemed to struggle with keeping the tears in. Finally she broke, and started crying. I asked her what was wrong and to sum it up;
She struggled a bit economically, and spends little time with S due to work.
She felt she agreed to everything and was afraid to do otherwise.
I said we already have disagreed on several points and asked why on earth she was afraid to disagree.
She said she believed I would make her life miserable if not(if she didn't agree when I wanted more time with S or exchange days).

I was floored, stunned, baffled and a bit hurt. I can't believe she would think that. It hasn't crossed my mind.

I said "I really hope we get along b/c we respect each other, not out of fear. I will not be run over/disrespected/bullied, but of course I won't ruin your life b/c we disagree. To be honest I'm floored and not sure what to believe. I don't believe I have done anything to make you feel this way, and I really hope I haven't. I can't say anything other than this; I'm not playing some kind of game here, and I truly want us to get along like two good parents who wants the best for their child. "
I symphatized with her economical struggle and time away from S.

IDK what to make of this. The Q's going through my head is, Is this her way of testing me/temp checking/or does she really feel this way? It just took me a bit by surprise, as things often does with the WAS.

[Valeska19]

UF,
In some ways - this can be typical WAS spew. When my xw said things similar to ^^^ I was baffled at first because I had never done anything that added any validity to her fears.

You don't have to understand them.. just realize that she has them. For whatever reason..

... and then, continue to prove them wrong. If you truly want to get along like two good parents, then do everything in your power to make that your truth.

Let your actions speak from themselves... and leave it up to your wife to believe them or not.

[theUF]

Makes sense, we all have some form of unreasonable fear. We have fought quite a bit at times, but I've realized anger is only counterproductive when acted on. With our S in the picture I really want things to work out the best way possible.

You know, at BD I was anxious for her to see that leaving wasn't a quick fix and that the grass wasn't particulary greener. I realize know that I was in a sense looking for a quick fix myself, thinking that it would push her back towards me.
Instead we both make less money, spend less time with S and have more logistiks. It breaks my heart for S to be in the midst of this and for me not to see him on a daily basis, but now I realize she probably deals with the same feelings. Still, we need to work through our own issues.

[theUF]

Weekly appointment was A LOT of fun. We were all exhausted afterwards.
At times it feels like playing family, and most of the other people are unaware of our situation as far as I know. But hey, I enjoy it, she enjoys it and by far the most important, S is extatic.

There was a discussion about an economical hiccup afterwards which turned a bit sour. We were never good at discussing economics, and given our current situation that certainly hasn't changed much. She gets very defensive and seems to expect me to go offensive.

Still a lot of work to do, I just wish I had a stronger gameplan.

Took S for a mini hike in the bush today. He loved it which was great. As a kid I remember my father complaining about never seeing me b/c me and my brother spent so much time hiking, hopefully I've passed down some of that blood. Beats complaining about videogames.

[theUF]

Detaching - comes and goes?

This week she's been (roller)costin' some more. Mostly friendly and nice, but she threw a couple "you always xxx" statements my way as well as bringing up some old stuff she never complained about before.
Mix in some answering-the-door-very-lightly-dressed and some teasing and boom, the rollercoaster moves on. I didn't "bite" on the teasing, but I find myself thinking about our sitch more and even dreamt about her last night. Sure feels like I'm backtracking on detachment.

Coming up on 6 months since BD, and it's true what you guys say about patience. There's just no way of telling how long these things take to sort out, one way or another.

Someone here said the other day that you should seperate the true/false of what the WAS says and brush of the untrue parts. I was frustrated about the false "you always" statement, but followed the advice and didn't take it to heart. I told her "I know it might feel that way. I get where that's coming from, but it's simply not the case" and it was left at that. I was glad to see it didn't escalate to a fight.

I guess I need to take a step back and work on detachment?

[theUF]

Hoping someone with a bit more experience can throw some advice my way or share their experiences.

After taking S for a small hike I went to hand him over to X. This weekend was originally hers, but we agreed on me having him Sunday(she was supposed to work). Now she said she wasn't working after all and that they wanted to take S to a museum. I asked her "So your're asking if you can have him the whole Sunday?" She said yes and I told her this came a bit sudden as I had already planned out the weekend with me having him Sunday and I also gave her Thursday(which was my day off from work).

She went off stating that it was originally her weekend and if I was going to give her h3ll about it she would just never ask me to have S again, except the days I'm required by law. I said it was no need to start threatning and pointing fingers b/c there was nothing preventing us from finding a solution. She became emotional, started crying and battered away....to sum up she says : (my summed up answers in red)

-If I tried to refuse she would not give me more time with S than what The law requires.
I haven't said either way yet, I'm just disappointed about our deal being discarded that easily and that you feel the need to threaten me. We can and should find a better way to handle this sort of thing.
-I was never there for her and S and don't deserve more than what her goodwill allows. I should be the one to face the consequences.
I'm not arguing here. I know I failed at being the partner and father I should have been. I regret that deeply. I wish I could go back and do it differently, but I simply can't. I know I have to face the consequences for my actions, and they are mine to face. I hope however, this will not be your card to continiously run me over.
-A lot of fathers who failed to be there like I was, were happy just to get every other weekend. And that was all they deserved.
Yes, and some of them are just happy to have that "freedom". But that's not me. I love my S and I want to be there for him.
-She's always working and doesn't see S much and I just doesn't understand that at all.
I do understand, maybe not to the extent you wan't me to, but I'm in the same position. We're two people who want the same thing, which makes it difficult for us to agree.I want you to see him, but I also miss him like mad every time he's gone.
-When I validate her feelings she asks me to stop the therapist-cr4p.
So b/c I understand your feelings I'm acting like a therapist? Sorry, I don't see the validity in that.
-She has been following my lead for 8,5 years and I still expect her to.
-I'm always making trouble or changing arrangements.
Simply not true, it happens yes. For both of us, but we should avoid pointing fingers and using "you always" statements. It does us no good and is only counterproductive.
-She stood her ground on it always happening and I pointed out several times she had done the same. I got carried away, not helpful.
-It took SO much to push her to leave me and when she finally did I suddenly start going around acting/pretending to be perfect. WhyTH now?!
You think this is a game for me? Have you ever considered the possibility that I may have learned a thing or two about what's important in life? I know my mistakes, I know I wasn't there. I know you carried the load with S, I'm grateful for what you've done and I regret not being there for you guys as much as I should have. My priorities were off, and it s0cks. This is my S, I love him, and It turns my stomach whenever I have to leave him. This isn't a game, it's just the present reality.

We finally found a compromise and left on pretty good terms, but she was quite emotional.
Seems her feelings are surfacing these days, and IDK what to make of all this.
I understand this might seem like an act to her, even after 6 months, but it's simply not. I've changed. Some day she will realize, I won't and can't force her to.
I regret the way I acted during his first year and a half, but I can't go around beating myself up every minute of every day. I'm also worried this will be her ace in the pocket every time she want's to run me over. At the same time I wan't to own my actions.
Now I'M the one mentally rollercosting.

[AnotherStander]

I hope you take this the right way, it's meant to be a constructive critique to help you understand what you did wrong and what you can do in the future to change that dynamic.

Hoping someone with a bit more experience can throw some advice my way or share their experiences.

Personally I think you were arguing with her, not validating. I'll try and give some examples:

She went off stating that it was originally her weekend and if I was going to give her h3ll about it she would just never ask me to have S again, except the days I'm required by law. I said it was no need to start threatning and pointing fingers b/c there was nothing preventing us from finding a solution.

You're accusing her with words like "threatening" and "pointing fingers" and implying that you're the peacemaker while she's the troublemaker.

Validation: "You sound upset about this, I'm sorry it upset you, you just caught my by surprise. I of course want you to spend as much time with S as is reasonable, I think if we just talk about this we can work it out."

-I was never there for her and S and don't deserve more than what her goodwill allows. I should be the one to face the consequences.
I'm not arguing here. I know I failed at being the partner and father I should have been. I regret that deeply. I wish I could go back and do it differently, but I simply can't. I know I have to face the consequences for my actions, and they are mine to face. I hope however, this will not be your card to continiously run me over.

You're making it sound like you deserve a prison sentence or something! "Face the consequences"? Focus on being a better father in the future, not what your punishment should be for being a bad father in the past! And don't throw jabs like you did with that last sentence, accusing her of wronging you.

Validation: I hear that you are angry about this and feel I've let you and S down in the past, I understand and I am sorry for making you feel this way. I love S dearly and it is my goal to become the best possible father to him and as such I want to spend as much time with him as possible. I hope that you can help me achieve this goal."

-She's always working and doesn't see S much and I just doesn't understand that at all.
I do understand, maybe not to the extent you wan't me to, but I'm in the same position. We're two people who want the same thing, which makes it difficult for us to agree.I want you to see him, but I also miss him like mad every time he's gone.

"I do understand" is a direct invalidation of her comment that you don't understand. It's argumentative and it invalidates her feelings. You're also making it sound like it's a "you versus her" issue as far as visitation.

Validation- I hear you saying that I don't understand your position, I do want to understand, can you please expand on this to help me understand better where you're coming from?

-When I validate her feelings she asks me to stop the therapist-cr4p.

Probably because you're not doing genuine, honest validation. If what you typed here is what you consider validation then you're not going about it right to begin with, what you're doing is arguing with her and invalidating her feelings by telling her that either she is wrong or that she misunderstands your intentions. Remember, validation is not about reasoning/ explaining/ agreeing/ disagreeing. It is about acknowledging her feelings.

So b/c I understand your feelings I'm acting like a therapist? Sorry, I don't see the validity in that.

See, just like this comment. You are bold enough to presume that you "understand" her feelings? I assure you, you don't. You may know (superficially) what her feelings are, but you've made no attempt to understand them based on what you posted.

-She has been following my lead for 8,5 years and I still expect her to.
-I'm always making trouble or changing arrangements.
Simply not true, it happens yes. For both of us, but we should avoid pointing fingers and using "you always" statements. It does us no good and is only counterproductive.

Arguing. Invalidating. Confrontational. Instead you should say "It sounds like you're frustrated, is that correct? I can understand your frustration. I thought I was doing the right thing in trying to lead you, but I can see now that it was frustrating for you. I'm sorry you feel that way and I want to work to improve this in the future, hopefully we can make important decisions jointly. I will work to involve you in the decision-making process when these things come up."

I could do the same for the rest of your responses, but hopefully this is enough for you to see the difference. You responded in anger/ bitterness/ frustration instead of loving kindness and understanding. Try to absorb this and put true validation into practice, it'll transform your interactions with W into a much more pleasant experience. It has done wonders for me and my W.

We finally found a compromise and left on pretty good terms, but she was quite emotional.

If she was emotional then you did not leave on good terms. I don't see how you could have after reading that exchange. Lots of latent anger and bitterness there on both sides. You can't expect her to change her approach, so you need to change your approach. Practice good validation, and it will change her attitude.

I understand this might seem like an act to her, even after 6 months, but it's simply not. I've changed.

I'm not so sure you've changed, at least not when it comes to arguing! Be careful about doing "more of the same" but putting a different name to it. Calling arguing "validation" doesn't magically transform it. It's still arguing and it's still "more of the same" behavior.

[theUF]

I hope you take this the right way, it's meant to be a constructive critique to help you understand what you did wrong and what you can do in the future to change that dynamic.

It's a big part of what I'm here for man. Thanks for answering.

You're also making it sound like it's a "you versus her" issue as far as visitation.

Yeah, that's basically what it's starting to feel like. It's definately not what I want though, and I want to do something about that.

You give good examples on validation and I see your point. I still struggle with the communication bit, and I tend to seek out what I view as "weaknesses" in her statements/arguments instead of validating and taking her feelings for what they are. You've given examples previously as well, I'll go back and read them. I need to reflect on my whole approach as far as communication goes.

-When I validate her feelings she asks me to stop the therapist-cr4p.

Probably because you're not doing genuine, honest validation. If what you typed here is what you consider validation then you're not going about it right to begin with, what you're doing is arguing with her and invalidating her feelings by telling her that either she is wrong or that she misunderstands your intentions. Remember, validation is not about reasoning/ explaining/ agreeing/ disagreeing. It is about acknowledging her feelings.

Her "therapist" respons was to me saying something like "I see how this is frustrating. You carried him inside you for 9 months, you took great care of him. The first year is hard, and I wasn't there when you needed me. You've done so much and I understand if you feel it's unfair for me to suddenly want so much time with him now that we've split up when it seemed I didn't before."

That just made her mad and she asked me to "please stop playing this therapist cr4p!!" Now maybe this ^^^ wasn't the best validation either, I know I have a long way to go, but every time I try to listen and ask about her feelings she tells me to stop playing therapist. Also this :

implying that you're the peacemaker while she's the troublemaker

probably creates a lot of frustration in her. I think a lot of what I do/say comes across that way(peacemaker/troublemaker)
She might think me showing interest in her feelings is another strategy or act and that's why she's challenging it. So maybe by really validating and being consistent she'll warm up.

So b/c I understand your feelings I'm acting like a therapist? Sorry, I don't see the validity in that.

See, just like this comment. You are bold enough to presume that you "understand" her feelings? I assure you, you don't. You may know (superficially) what her feelings are, but you've made no attempt to understand them based on what you posted.

True. What I meant was that we were both two parents who want as much time with S as possible, therefore I understand what that desire feels like. Her feelings however, I don't understand, and I struggle with creating trust with her. I guess some of the things she say is typical WAS spew, but it does seem she believes I'm putting up an act. It would be a nice turnaround to see her opening up a bit and see how she feels.

I could do the same for the rest of your responses, but hopefully this is enough for you to see the difference. You responded in anger/ bitterness/ frustration instead of loving kindness and understanding. Try to absorb this and put true validation into practice, it'll transform your interactions with W into a much more pleasant experience. It has done wonders for me and my W.

Yes, I see the difference. I welcome any advice to better practice validation. I'll admit it did provoke a whole lot of frustration in me. Before BD I started seeing where things were headed and I saw what I had done wrong and how much it would hurt to lose my family.
I started trying to turn things around. I took more time of from work. Had several meetings with management to find solutions. Laid out suggestions for how to better share economy. Took more care of S and suggested couple-activities. But as time showed it was too little too late, and didn't hold much credibility. So I did lose my family, and I knew why. So now I'm trying to be a good father. Putting a lot of effort in trying to make the best possible arrangements for me and S, and it hurts to see it be taken as an act.

We finally found a compromise and left on pretty good terms, but she was quite emotional.

If she was emotional then you did not leave on good terms. I don't see how you could have after reading that exchange. Lots of latent anger and bitterness there on both sides. You can't expect her to change her approach, so you need to change your approach. Practice good validation, and it will change her attitude.

English is not my native language so I usually re-read everything I write. I got that sentence a bit backwards, it should read "She was quite emotional during our conversation, but when I left we were on good terms." Good terms is probably a stretch, but at least she was smiling and laughing during the last part of the visit.

I understand this might seem like an act to her, even after 6 months, but it's simply not. I've changed.

I'm not so sure you've changed, at least not when it comes to arguing! Be careful about doing "more of the same" but putting a different name to it. Calling arguing "validation" doesn't magically transform it. It's still arguing and it's still "more of the same" behavior.

When I say changed I mean in regards to S. BD provided me with a serious wake up call in regards to my family/S. When it comes to arguing, that's a hard habit to shake. I've been looking for some kind of workshops which can help, but haven't had much luck. EE in the states is half a world away, but I read somewhere about EE in the UK, which is at least somewhat closer.