put yourself out of the misery or keep pushing on.

[findingself]

Okay so just noticed I was locked out of my last thread...


How do you connect to it?

Really need some feedback on it...this week has been a hard one so far...trying to make myself get up and get going but even when trying to occupy myself I am still close to tears all the time.

Holding everythin back to not just write the 'last' lay it all on the line letter...so hard to control yourself when everything in your body tells you to do something else...help!

[jp787]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2332669&page=1

[findingself]

Thank you jp!!!

[jp787]

Thank you jp!!!

No problem. I feel for you, I really do! I am fighting letting my emotions running me also, it is so hard.
Listen to the vets and what they say, I wish I could help, but I am in your emotional shoes myself right now.
Take a look at my thread(s) there is a wealth of great advice there!
Hang in there!!!

[reb9597]

It's still seems pretty new in your sitch. You have a lot of healing left and time will really help in that regard. My feelings and objectives now are WAY different than they were last month or 3 months ago. It seems like any your discussion with H is too recent to initiate another follow up email. I don't think he would respond with an open heart or mind. I'd say give it time and reevaluate in two weeks. Then do a gut check and see if you can wait another two weeks. Any more contact will be seen as pursuit and may push him away further.

[findingself]

Thanks Reb...I tried so hard to not communicate with him this weekend...told him I was okay without talking...as soon as I said I didn't want to talk he wanted to...did not want to do it on my terms he said...

Well I tried so hard to hold it together but you know how that goes so early in the process.

I just want to pause things...take a break...wish I could do it with confidence that he would do the same.

He did not respond with an open heart or mind last weekend either I don't think...why I wanted to wait to have a talk...it is like talking to a wall right now...

I like the idea of trying to just make it one week or two weeks at a time...that had been my goal and got derailed...now to get back at it...

Just very low point...I think I might need to write a letter for my own therapy and not send it.

H has said would be here this Saturday and then Sunday morning...who knows he changes things pretty quick depending on how he feels and how stressed, depressed or sad he is.

[AnotherStander]

From the last post in your other thread:

So come early to get what you need to said.

This should have been a huge red flag to you that he did not want to talk to you and was only doing it to let you get it off your chest. Clearly he went into it not being receptive.

I am so mad with myself, but I can't change it it is out there out to the universe and am thinking it is all done now.

Well it was a huge backslide to be sure, basically you're starting DB'ing all over again. That's OK, view this as a new start and redouble your efforts to be consistent in your DB'ing this time.

H did asked me if I always felt that he put his job before me to which I broke down and said yes, I eventually during the 7 hour conversation (which went so quick) told him that I hated his job, always have that every time I had a discussion with him about how he was always gone with his job and the stress that put on me he would say he was going to do all of these things to change the situation and when there were No results, and I mean there were never any results...

In the future any discussions you have with H need to be started by him and driven by him. You LISTEN, don't TALK. Only say enough to encourage him to continue. Do not EVER bring up the marriage, relationship or divorce. Only talk about those things if HE brings them up. And if he does, shut up, listen and validate his emotions. What you did above was made the conversation all about your wants/ needs/ complaints and to put it bluntly- HE DOESN'T CARE. He doesn't want to hear about me, me, me. And 7 hours worth! Way too much pressure on any WAS.

His job has been an issue in our marriage for a very long time...and it is not working late nights...it is working all week long, or month long at a site hours away from home, spending the night there...he puts his all into his work, and then there is nothing left for us.

What does HE think is wrong in the M? We know what YOU think, but that is not going to bring him back. You need to tell us what HE thinks is wrong, and you need to do 180's on those things.

I also told him that living three hour away wa not going to allow him to be the father he always wanted to be for S, that S needed him in his life.

High pressure tactics do not work, because I bet if you're honest with yourself you did not have S's interests in mind, you were trying to guilt H into staying. And I'm sure H saw right through it.

but did say that he was not willing to not be with another person because he had gone so long with out feeling loved.

THIS is the kind of stuff you need to pay attention to in conversations. You want to know why your H wants to end the M so you can do 180's on those things. A good validating response to this would have been "I hear you saying you didn't feel loved, can you tell me more about this, about why you didn't feel loved?" And pay attention to what he says, and do 180's on those things as much as you can within the framework of DB'ing.

He would not let me into his space, anywhere close to him. He was so mad and angry with me, no love in him, when he told me he felt so 'wronged' I told him I was sorry he felt that way but also knew that he would never forgive me because H does not forgive people who have 'wronged' him.

That apology does not sound sincere at all because it's coupled with an accusation that he can't change and that he's wronging you (IE, he'll "never" forgive you).

Discussed going to counseling...

Oh wow, I'm amazed that as poorly as this whole conversation went you would even think to bring up counseling.

says he tried so many times to make things better to which I said I did not know my needs at the time and I could not tell him what they were.

Please understand, you have to change the way you think. You have to see things from HIS point of view, not yours. HE DOESN'T CARE what your needs are right now. You have to express concern for HIS needs! You seem to think that his needs are to fulfill your needs, but you didn't tell him your needs so that's why the M is crashing. No, he's leaving because he feels that HIS needs were not being met. So when you beat him over the head with YOUR needs like you did in this convo, you're just reinforcing to him that you don't care about him, it's all about you. I know that wasn't your intent, I'm just trying to help you see how he viewed that convo so you understand why not to go there again.

Told h that he is and was my best friend, that I never ment to hurt him, I was protecting myself, that it was not right for me to always be in control and have my needs met first but that was the relationship that was established from the beginning and I see now that that is not ideal and I no longer want that.

OK, so above you say your fault in the M was that you always had to be in control and have your needs met first. And you acknowledge this is a mistake. Yet in this entire conversation you controlled the discussion and you made it all about your needs. This is what Michele calls in DR "more of the same" behavior. So let me ask you, what it a 180 on that behavior?

H shut down during discussion a lot...I should have stopped...

Men's reaction to what we perceive as nagging is to shut down. And yes, you should have accepted that as the signal that things were going very poorly and you should have stopped. Actually you never should have started, if you read Sandi's DB tips (sticky at top of forum) it talks about never initiating convos like this.

I said he has made me feel like I take full blame for the state of our marriage...I asked h if there was anything he was at fault for to which he imformed he had thought about it and had not come up with anything.

I think my head is going to explode, LOL! This reads like a synopsis of everything NOT to do in a conversation with a WAS. You can't guilt a WAS into coming back.

There is so much more that happened in the discussion so many wrong turns...I should have held up and not gone there...should have come here first before deciding what to do!!! AH!!!

Print out Sandi's DB tips and read them at least once a day until you have a firm grasp of every one of them. They were instrumental in helping me to understand what to do and not do around W. They work wonders in diffusing the situation, if you follow them it removes all pressure from the WAS and will take away their incentive to push for divorce. I'm not saying it repairs all marriages, but I am saying it's your best shot.

So sunday I arrived at home...H seemed sad and depressed...thinking being around S makes him think about things more

That's mind-reading. Don't do it.

As he was leaving he started to lose it breaking down crying at the door. I could not help it I asked him twice if he was okay, told him I never wanted to be in a situation where he had to leave his home.

Next time ask "what are you feeling right now?" You want to encourage him whenever you can to discuss his feelings. Don't say "What's wrong?" or "Are you OK?" Because those imply there is something wrong with him and his defense to that will be to say "nothing's wrong". But if you ask what he's feeling it tells him it's OK to cry, and that you care about him and what he's going through.

HE took his break to which I told him it was hard not to want to comfort him because he is my husband and my friend.

Pressure.

I asked him to think if there was any bit of questioning on his part on whether this was right or not, then to think about it and think about maybe looking at it alittle more.

Pressure, pressure, pressure.

Man I am embarrassed to even write the things that went on this weekend!!!

Don't be, you made a lot of mistakes, but if you talk about it here we can help point you in the right direction. That's what these forums are all about.

[AnotherStander]

He did not respond with an open heart or mind last weekend either I don't think...why I wanted to wait to have a talk...it is like talking to a wall right now...

Of course it is, because talking about the R is PRESSURE to the WAS, and the last thing in the world they want is pressure from anyone, but especially from the LBS!!! Pressure pushes them right out the door and into the lawyer's office. I don't remember if you said you've read DR, if not then read it ASAP. And like I said before, print out Sandi's tips (they are also in DR) and LIVE them.

I like the idea of trying to just make it one week or two weeks at a time...that had been my goal and got derailed...now to get back at it...

Barely scraping by a week or two at a time is NOT a goal!!! Read the chapter in DR on setting goals for yourself. Get out, GAL. Make yourself the W only a fool would leave. Learn what you did wrong in the M and do 180's on those things. Your goals should be clear and succinct and driven by the above concepts. Your goals should be written down so you can monitor your progress. Post them here so we can help you fine-tune them.

[findingself]

Another thank you for taking the time to help!! I was waiting for it...it went so wrong...I should haves, are all over the place.

I saw my control of the conversation and relationship...I had wrote down the list of don't and do's last week, had them on the frig...

I hit the bottom that is for sure! Love the comment that I should have asked what he was feeling at that time...we us that in the future.

Also he has made some statements of what he felt was wrong in the marriage but I have not asked directly again.

My roles....

To not let him be heard on multiple things
To not put his needs ahead of mine
To not have discussions where I was open to feedback and ideas from him
To not be happy he is here in the home and let go of the hurt of him not being here
To not admit that I was wrong, and sorry at times
To not be happy with what I have in life, always want more


Oh that is so not all of it but where I can go right now...

I need to let go of the past, nothing will change the past, I do not want to hold on to resentment, anger, fear and pain from the past...

I want to be happy not consumed by this

I need his feedback on things, need to have discussions openly and with feedback on topics...need to show him that I appreciate his feedback and opionions on things

Should I address my behaviors with him? If so how? Or should I try to change things when he sees me...I know I did take over the conversation, gave up all the work I had done and that was working...

I feel pretty hopeless right now...need to schedule a conversation with coach...

So hard to change behaviors that have been present for 14 years.

So do I write a letter...I want to tell him ( I know this is me controling things) that if he wants he can take the money from taxes to get an apartment. I understand his need for stability at this time, I understand that it is hard for him to live in hotels and his truck and that I would not want him to be continuing with this unneccessary pain. I trust in the decision where he wants to live being the best for him and S. I appreciate how hard he is working through out this process in the last couple of month. I understand this can not be easy for him and takes a lot of bravery and control to do what he is doing. I am sorry for the pressure I have been putting on him and the guilt I have been making him feel. This is not right that I am doing that, I am wrong to make him feel that way. I take responsbility for not being willing to hear him in the past and since his leaving, his opionion and feelings do matter and I do know that but have not shown him this. I want him to be happy in his life not matter what that life looks like. The conversations so far have not gone well on my part and I take responsbility for my actions and am sorry. I want to open up discussion on the Montana trip as he was not able to discuss it during our conversation as I controlled the topic. This was not how I wanted the conversation on the topic to go but I can not change that, just admit that I was wrong in how I approached it...

This is all the sutff plus more that I would love to say...do I just shut up now and address them when and if they come up?

[findingself]

So new leaf today...I can't stand obsessing on this life I have right now!!


Do any of the rest of you feel that you are not the only one that wants you to succeed?

Sometimes I feel that H really does want me to make these changes I feel that he wants the life he had too, but just better, as do I?

Is this just wishful hoping?